To think that it is a genuine possibility that the Sarin attacks have been falsified by the us to legitimise air strikes

[Beadoren]

As above really...

Have we been totally conditioned by the media to believe that the uk/us are the good guys and Russia are the bad guys. I think the us have form for things like this, does video constitute proof? All just rings a bit of the whole Iraq war thing. Do they just have different agendas in Syria than Russia?

Histiny, you thing Assad is responsible? Fine, many others think the same ad you. Each to his own. What are you hoping to achieve? Beat others into subjection?

You don't know for a fact and neither do the rest of us whose instinct and reading of the evidence think otherwise.

Really, that's life. It works like that sometimes (well most of the time).

www.msf.org/en/article/syria-khan-sheikhoun-victims-have-symptoms-consistent-exposure-chemical-substances

Medicines sans frontiers- blatantly lying about gas attacks?

Misstic, just show me some of your evidence that is or us carried out the attack. Or that there was no gas attack.
That's not too much to ask, is it?

Oh I see you don't need evidence, just instinct.
Brilliant.

No one is denying that the victims have symptoms consistent to exposure to chemical substances though. But MSF are not allowed into government controlled areas in Syria. And I admire the organisation and donate to them, but even they don't know who did the Sarin attacks.

The ops position is that the pictures of dying children could be misleading or falsified by the us govt. other posters agree with her.

Hopefully she is now finding compelling evidence for her claims. Although why bother with evidence when you've got "instinct."

Despite your earlier claims that stc don't operate in Syria, they have been treating victims of chemical attacks there. As have msf despite you deciding they are not operating there as well.

Perhaps they are all liars.

Are you going to discredit the opcw and human rights watch also?

Oh dear god. For the love of Jesus tiny, how many times. I'm not making any claims, other than to cast doubt on the 'facts' (which as pps have said haven't been proved)

I didn't say they have been falsified I said it's POSSIBLE

Ok, and you are Assad. I'm not saying you are but "it's a genuine possibility."

All I am saying is engage brain before believing everything that the media says before looking at thebog
Picture and considering there may be another explanation

Oh fucking hell. Because the government never lie and the media never get it wrong? And there's never been another occasion in the ME where evidence of war crimes has been fabricated to justify US intervention.

It's really not that much of a stretch.

Haven't read whole thread so this may have been said before but what is awful is that there is even any doubt. Before the orange buffoon came into power these conversations wouldn't have happened.

why not research trumps previous position on Syria, why not find out what Assad has been doing, why not look at the evidence from people in Syria, why not listen to the experts and read widely before jumping to conclusions based on nothing but your feeling that 'ooh er, it's a bit convenient!!"

Histiny, your reasoning is all over the place.

Your last comment about it being a possibility that the Bead is Assad may be clever in your eyes but it simply proves Bead's point. What you think is fact may not be fact at all.

If anything useful can be taken from your last point it's this: we know nothing. Indeed Bead could be Assad. Similarly, all the evidence you seem to believe exist may not exist at all. This is part of Decartes argument.

So really, your supposed facts are no more reliable than mine or others. Appreciate that you don't know and there is no conclusive proof that Assad did this.

... and Histiny, if you are a student of history consider the lies upon lies that were told by the government and media about people from and the happenings in other countries. Put aside Iraq and WMĎ, consider the atrocities in Kenya, for instance and the list goes on.

^^^

This exactly.

The queen is a reptile.

The holocaust never happened.

9/11 was George bush's idea.

Sandy hook was a lie.

Moon landings were made up.

All facts are the same.

There you go. Your arguments are all over the place. For all what you've listed above, I'll list one:

The West NEVER lies or misrepresent the truth in their own interest

The West is infallible and is always right.

The West is always the goodie

Iraq had weapons of mass destruction

Etc

I meant to list the first one but got carried away

my argument has been consistent - show me some evidence.

Do we think Kim Jung-on's nuclear tests have been secretly set up by Americans (or perhaps the Chinese) too?

so Tiny, even if I have form for lying, if I tell you a statement is it automatically true unless it is proven to be false?

Tiny, are you implying that if I do not believe the US about matter A then by default I cannot believe them with regards to other matters? That would imply that The US machinery either ALWAYS tells the truth or ALWAYS lies. Neither of this can be true which is why Bead said from the very start that it is sensible to critically think about everything we are fed by the media and our governments, and entertain the possibility that we are sometimes told lies, half truths, and indeed truths.

So to answer your question, given the newd reports that I have read and North Korea's own admissions, I believe they have been doing nuclear tests. Similarly, given the media reports, Russian government explanations, and Syrian accounts including that of the Syrian government, I have my doubts that Assad carried out the gas attack.

We are simply going round in circles here. I'm done.

Beadoren, by "just asking questions", you are making claims. Don't pretend to be so naive

Tiny, are you implying that if I do not believe the US about matter A then by default I cannot believe them with regards to other matters?
er I hope not. That would be ludicrous.

I don't doubt that Assad once again gassed his own people. It would have been nice to have been linked to these many reports that show he was innocent. Maybe I didn't request them enough times!

even if I have form for lying, if I tell you a statement is it automatically true unless it is proven to be false?

Er, no. But what a liar says about something doesn't change whether it happened or not. Look for other sources. Obviously. There are plenty of sources here other than Trump.

We are simply going round in circles here. I'm done. And me. DH is looking at me like...stop the fuck playing with your phone.

Peace was being restored in Syria by Putin and Assad. That might not be convenient for the Anglo-American coalition forces. So they struck Mosul a few weeks ago killing hundreds of civilians and in an effort to bury this bad news quickly .... well, what could be more convenient?

Peace was being restored in Syria by Putin and Assad

Sure, if that's your story.

Is that like how Putin is just restoring peace to Ukraine?