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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that it is a genuine possibility that the Sarin attacks have been falsified by the us to legitimise air strikes

191 replies

Beadoren · 13/04/2017 23:12

As above really...

Have we been totally conditioned by the media to believe that the uk/us are the good guys and Russia are the bad guys. I think the us have form for things like this, does video constitute proof? All just rings a bit of the whole Iraq war thing. Do they just have different agendas in Syria than Russia?

OP posts:
user1471542821 · 14/04/2017 08:06

Why would the UN be involved, if it didn't happen why would Russia veto the idea of any UN organisations going to Syria and doing analysis. If it was faked, surely it would be better to let that happen, and discredit the US?

Dontwant2behere · 14/04/2017 08:07

I have a friend who works for MSF and they have first hand accounts of the doctors treating people.

So no its not made up.

KellysZeros · 14/04/2017 08:08

I saw some friends on Facebook talking and sharing this, and I think it's really sad when so many people are mistrustful so that they would rather believe Russian propaganda

Original poster
Beadoren · 14/04/2017 08:11

No I didn't get this idea from facebook Hmm

I just think that the US and Russia are meddling in the Syrian governent and. Acting different groups to match their own agenda. The US are arming the agree Syrian Army who aren't exactly saints themselves.

It's just the picture the media are painting is one of Trump stepping in as some moral rescue mission that then US won't stand for these people being attacked but they are hardly a disinterested party there. I think Russia probably think they are also trying to sort out the political situation there as best they can but they feel Assad is syrias best chance. I don't think any of the possible governments are exactly ideal.

I'm not at all saying that Russia and Assad are good guys, I'm jus staying I don't think then US are
Either.

There's that Gill Scott Heron quote....
'The first revolution is when you change your mind about how you look at things, and see there might be another way to look at it that you have not been shown'

OP posts:
exWifebeginsat40 · 14/04/2017 08:13

don't worry about that. use your mental energy on wondering what's happening while we're all looking the other way.

ForalltheSaints · 14/04/2017 08:13

No.

Elvis is dead too and the moon landings were not faked.

scaryteacher · 14/04/2017 08:13

Exactly 1471. Moreover, for those saying Saddam didn't have WMD, they might like to recall that Saddam used chemical weapons on two occasions. They might also like to consider that there is a railway line between Iraq and Sryria, and to wonder where those chemical weapons went. Just because they had been moved by the time the Inspectors got there, doesn't mean they weren't there once.

LostSight · 14/04/2017 08:16

The same thought crossed my mind OP. I read the 'news' and feel I have no idea any more of where the truth lies. It's an unnerving realisation.

user1471596238 · 14/04/2017 08:17

Thing is that there is spin on all sides. The Russians have become very sophisticated in terms of media too so it's a case of trying to see through all the hyperbole and making a reasoned judgment based on the available evidence. In this case, based on what I have read in terms of the science behind what happened, I would tend to believe the US version of events. I am not a supporter of every aspect of US foreign policy or a Trump fan but in this case, I am persuaded by the official version of events.

KellysZeros · 14/04/2017 08:18

Beadoran,

Excuse me, but I may end up being a bit harsh here, but I think you're talking nonsense, but in a way that is superficially appealing. You have a quote about how you're so open minded and seeing things the rest of us can't see, but ultimately, you're relying on a "hunch" because you don't trust the US or the UK, and you have a bit of sympathy for Russia.

Do you have any evidence than this hunch? If not, I'm afraid it's nonsense

(and even if it's subconscious, you are parroting Russian talking points)

scaryteacher · 14/04/2017 08:20

Obama drew a red line about chemical weapons and then didn't enforce it. Trump has laid down a marker to make a point that he can and will enforce a red line. Syria has been going on for six years now. At least Trump and the Foreign Secretary are keeping it on the agenda. I am not surprised that his G7 plan failed though, as Germany is happy to open her doors to those displaced by the war in Syria, but is unwilling to address the root cause of why there are displaced people. God forbid that Germany should have to get gas from another supplier than Russia.

hazelnutlatte · 14/04/2017 08:20

OP there is plenty of evidence that the chemical attacks happened and that Asad is responsible. Conspiracy theories around this are just bonkers and don't add up.
You are right, however, for questioning the motivations behind Trump's response. It seems very unlikely that he is doing this for humanitarian reasons, considering he has a track record for not giving a shit about the plight of Syrians. Who knows why he is doing it? Possibly to distract from all of his policy defeats lately.

londonrach · 14/04/2017 08:20

Trump doesnt care about anything but america so wasnt bothered by this and has been forced to react. Whether or not he should have in this way. So yes i believe the news. And scientists.

user1471596238 · 14/04/2017 08:21

I agree that Russia and the US (and the UK as well in fairness) are working to an agenda that suits them. The only true altruism I can see is from the brave doctors and nurses that are doing their best to save lives.

LostSight · 14/04/2017 08:21

I found this commentary by a former CIA officer fascinating. She points out that everyone believes they are the good guys. I'm sure many people see the US as being the aggressor.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amaryllis-fox-undercover-cia-video_us_57600d31e4b0e4fe5143afc6

Original poster
Beadoren · 14/04/2017 08:23

I don't have sympathy for Russia, I just recognise that our media is biased towards the UK and US. I think essentially at this point in time a lot of the news is propaganda. So I think that actually taking a step back from the default position of being on a 'side', and actually considering the possibility that this is false flag isn't so crazy. Sometimes wonder how other countries' media is telling the story and which facts have been presented.

OP posts:
Mari50 · 14/04/2017 08:23

There was someone on the today program saying just that last week. Strategically the use of chemical weapons at this point in the conflict didn't make much sense as Assad was essentially winning.
Who knows? We should have intervened years ago anyway and in my opinion history will will judge our inaction very poorly.

Original poster
Beadoren · 14/04/2017 08:26

lost sight

Yep. Things like homeland and scandal really opened my eyes (I am fully aware they are dramatisations but I don't doubt at all that that type of crap goes on).

OP posts:
Elendon · 14/04/2017 08:33

I heard that interview as well Mari and he did make a few excellent points.

I think it's an excellent point to discuss Beadoren but the usual response of 'whacky' conspiracy will be used in an attempt to shut down dialogue.

Anyone who engages in aggression is bad in my view, but it's the manner of ISIS and how they operate that is the major problem. They saw a vacuum (drought and famine in Syria) and filled it. The west stood by and did nothing.

RedSandYellowSand · 14/04/2017 08:37

I'm not convinced we will ever know for certain WHO released nerve gas over Syria, but I'm pretty certain a sarin type agent was released Sad.
What happens now is going to get even more complicated and possibly very scary.

kathkim · 14/04/2017 08:39

Nothing would surprise me. Could be another case of the non-existent "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

KellysZeros · 14/04/2017 08:39

Beadoran, I'm sorry but I think you do have sympathy for Russia, you're just not sufficiently aware of it (that probably sounds condescending). It's just the oldest trick in the book!

I've seen it in so many "debates" from holocaust denial to climate change. You're not taking sides, you're "just asking questions", and "keeping an open mind". You'd read before how it can't have been possible for a tall building to collapse so quickly, or that there can't have been enough trains coming into Auschwitz, or that Satellites can't measure temperature correctly. You're just keeping an open mind.

The point is, to date, the "official explanation" is backed up by the evidence, the decent newspapers support this, scientific evidence supports, and it you're just going on a hunch.

Collaborate · 14/04/2017 08:40

I do wish all the conspiracy theorists found an island somewhere to live on, and let the rational minded among us get on with things.

They simply serve to toxify the debate with their nonsense, and play a significant part in things like Trump, Brexit, and Putin's shenanigans.

user1471596238 · 14/04/2017 08:42

You are right not to take everything at face value but if the default position is that it might be a false flag then it's kind of working in favour of the Syrian position. Personally, as much as one does have to be careful not to get sucked into accepting government narrative verbatim, I really see nothing to suggest that this was a 'false flag'. There is nothing to suggest that the US is going to insert itself into the conflict in any meaningful way so what would they gain from making it up?

TheBogQueen · 14/04/2017 08:46

Sometimes it just is what it is.

Assad has gassed his own people before. He's done it again. Trump has responded in that way because he wants to be a good guy.

It's messy short term knee jerk responses to the turmoil in Syria. and no one will win.

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