To not change my stance even in the face of my mother threatening suicide?

[SABaby]

Several months ago, I cut my mother out my family’s life due to the repulsive comments she made to my daughters regarding their appearance. My kids are half black/half white (14 and 11). DD1 has olive skin and DD2 has light caramel skin. The last time their grandmother saw them, she told my babies that it’s a shame DD2 doesn’t have her older sister’s lighter skin tone. And that DD2 would be so much prettier if she had her sister’s olive skin tone. This greatly upset both my children.

When I found out, the rage that consumed me was overwhelming. I had it out with my mother and told her that I never want her anywhere near my kids and my husband again. Over the last few months, my mum has been bombarding family members, telling them about my “cruelty.” Last week I received a letter from her – it stated that without the joy of her grandkids, she sees no point in living anymore.

Now, this isn’t the first time my mother has threatened to kill herself. She’s never done it directly to me, but a few times to my dad. I remember when I was a little girl, she once took a knife and pointed it to her stomach – she told my dad she would stab herself if he went out for a drink with his colleagues that night (I kid you not). She’s always been the melodramatic and manipulative type.

When I got the letter, I called my mother and we spoke on the phone. I told her I can see her, but my children just can’t be around her. I don’t want them recalling what happened. When I told her the kids are still off-limits for her, she reiterated her suicidal threats. Then she started shouting at me – saying how unfair and cruel I was being.
She hurt my daughters tremendously, and that’s something that I not only find hard to understand, but to forgive. And it’s something I’m not willing to risk for a second time.

I do understand, i just wonder if ..if its resolvable..that might also be a healthier outcome for your DD, and you. Maybe it isnt though.

I would never accept her apology.She gave voice to what she really felt. Any apology Out of her mouth will not change what is in her heart and her mind. She has shown herself to be shallow and spiteful.

You have evidenced this as a child and you are right to do all you can to protect your children. Why would they or you even need her in your life?

OP if your dd's are reluctant to be around her then take that as your guide/lead and just tell her how they are feeling and need some time to process what has happened. I wouldn't announce the whole NC thing as that could potentially make your dd's feel that they aren't allowed contact with her.

Your focus needs to be in instilling a positive sense of identity within your girls. We have had some incidents that made me want to murder get very upset but I try to pass it off to my dc as twattish behaviour and it seems to work.

I totally agree that you living in SA makes the situation worse.

This website might be helpful www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/characteristics-of-narcissistic-mothers/

middle-aged - This isn't the first time I've cut off family members. Afrikaans' families are generally large and closely-knit. Growing up, I was around plenty of uncles and aunts. And I was exposed to scenes where an uncle would call over his black worker not by his name, but by the word "dog." There were a lot of things that were even worse, but I don't wish to go into it. When I first started dating my husband, there were discontent rumblings from that sector - I severed ties with them. I know they talk about me among themselves and I know some of the unbelievably racist things they say about my husband and our children, even today.

Don't want to open up a can of worms, but is it wrong to have a preference on colour of skin/hair? A pp upthread for example said she loves black skin because she is white, is that wrong? My friend has two mixed race children and one of them in my eyes is much more beautiful (the darker one) than the other. Her tone and complexion is much more even than her sister so I'm not sure if I think her colour is nicer or just her features. Obviously I would never say it out loud.

I'm not trying to be goady or anything, but just wondering if it wasn't a racist comment per se and that the GM just thinks the older dd is prettier, in the same way that my DGM though we would all be nicer with red hair?

Devilish - Yes, colourism and racial dynamics in general, are a huge issue in South Africa. A couple of years ago, DD1 was playing netball for her school. The school they visited and played against had a social clique - this clique only consisted of girls who were of a certain shade of light skin

I visited South Africa in the late 70's when I was 8 - I remember being completely confused by apartheid. I know the country has changed massively, but it's recent history and attitudes don't just vanish overnight. I haven't been to South Africa since then but have an inkling that differences in skin tone are are much bigger issue there and noticed in a way it isn't here.

Glum being very pale is completely different. Especially in South Africa. (I'm very pale).

Angel Thursday - Thanks for the link. Really appreciate it!

saracrewe - I agree with you about instilling a positive identity with my daughters.

OP just saw your last post on the family so scrap what I just said. I was just clutching at straws really hoping that your DM said it out of ignorance rather than a race issue.

OP - I think a lot of people in the U.K. just aren't going to understand the South African context of skin tone as it doesn't exist in quite the same way here.

I think given the context this is a big deal and reacting however you feel appropriate is fine.

Threatening suicide is in my book more damaging and would be a big red flag for me. It's the ultimate way of manipulating another person. It's the ultimate power trip and piles guilt and dependence on the other person. Very damaging in the long run, I speak from experience.

For this alone I would remove her from your children's lives. They do not deserve to have this kind of manipulation in their lives.

Also the reason she is now directing comments at them about their skin is because they are growing up into adults. She wants the same control over them as she has over the rest of you. Classic beat them down with snide comments then throw them the odd scrap of praise. She is starting on the next generation

I grew up with an aunt and GM who would be lovely to me one minute and then awful another. My DM worked and my DF was an alcoholic so I spent a lot of time with them.
The type of comments I got were...... when you're older , you might be as pretty as your sister! ..... looks aren't everything ! ...when you're older you might be as smart as your sister etc...... the affect that had on my self esteem, as a teenager, has carried through my adult life.
As you said, it's one thing for a total stranger to comment on your looks etc but it's totally different , and a lot more damaging when it's a loved one.
If your dcs don't want to see her, respect that. If, in the future, their GM is willing to genuinely apologise and reconnect with them and their willing to listen, then so be it.
For now....put dcs first .

This is totally awful that this has happened and your mother sounds at best impulsive and thoughtless and at worse manipulative and cruel (and the effect her comments have had on your dc is heart-breaking).

I've had a similar situation in that after many many years of trying, I went nc with my mil who was a similar character (and a bully to boot) although I didn't specificially announce it ifyswim, I just didn't speak to her or see her. After many years of trying to accommodate her, the catalyst was something she did/said to my dc and having previously always backed down, the tiger mother in me came out and I drew a line there and then.

On the other hand, the suicide issue is very difficult when people use the threat of it to manipulate and control. The problem is, I have experienced suicide in my family and people do often say they are going to do it, before they do. So it's a difficult one.

I think you did the right thing to phone her. Personally I would try and acknowledge her situation (even though she has brought it on herself) and frustration but then make it very very clear that using suicide to manipulate and control is totally unfair and wrong and less likely to make you want to reconcile.

Only you can judge what is the best thing to do about your dc though (and it sounds as though you have already made your decision to go nc). Strangers on the Internet cannot know the full context of your mother's relationship with your children; how she is with them generally. And if you were ever going to reintroduce contact, if would obviously have to be on very strict terms about what she says and how she behaves around them.

I'm also going to risk saying that generally I don't think going nc brings much happiness or resolution either . (I'm saying this having lost elderly parents and having attended the funerals of quite a few elderly aunts and cousins recently.)

I was reconciled with my decision about my mil, and my dh was totally in agreement that we shouldn't expose our dc to her mind games. He didn't go nc with her but, obviously, it being his mother, he found the whole situation much more painful than me. Tbh, however terrible they are, we find it very difficult to separate ourselves from our mothers totally I think. Well, without cost to ourselves I mean.

Anyway, that's not a lot of help but I wish you well with the situation op. Your daughters have a great mum looking out for them.

Devilish - I know a couple from Britain (they routinely visit). Their daughter is actually at the University of Cape Town on exchange, and she visits us a lot. She said she can't believe how segregated the university is -- whites with whites, blacks with blacks. She says it's like visiting America in the 1950s. And what she says is true. Apartheid only ended 23 years ago. That's nothing. The law changed, but plenty of the attitudes still exist. And even though I think the younger generation is a lot more open-minded than their parents and grandparents, many of the archaic attitudes still persist. It will take a long time for them to vanish.

People who intend to kill themselves actually do it. People who want to punish, manipulate and control others around them threaten to do it. I grew up with a mother with borderline personality disorder and parasuicide was her punishment of choice when someone wasn't feeding her need to be noticed. It has done untold damage to me and it has destroyed our family. While her comments about your child are horrendous I would suggest that you need to protect them from her other behaviours as well. When you responded to her threat she got the exactly the reaction she wanted and she will keep repeating that behaviour while she gets a result from it. The only way for you to win that game is not to play. No contact has to mean no contact or it doesn't work. because it's not easy.

daringdaschund

Thanks for that enlightening post. You're wrong - it was a lot of help :)

Obviously the casual racism is unforgiveable, but I don't think that's the extent of the problems. People with "normal" relationships with their mothers possibly haven't picked up on the red flag of the suicide threat. The mother uses suicide as a threat to manipulate, control and punish. It's hard to explain quite how dysfunctional and destructive it is to grow up with someone who does this. If the grandmother uses suicide as a threat when she doesn't get her own way or is picked up on bad behaviour, then it's probably best that her contact with the children is limited.
Some people just aren't very nice, mothers/grandmothers or not.
Interesting too that the grandmother is so distraught that she might kill herself, but not distraught enough to make a proper apology.
Narcissism is a word often over used, but she sounds like a selfish, melodramatic and manipulative woman.

What she said was inexcusable, and I think you're doing the right thing to keep your daughters away from her until she shows that she can behave a little better. That means not only treating them with more respect, but ceasing to behave in such a ridiculous and melodramatic fashion.

However, I think that you may get further with her if you keep some kind of communication open with yourself, and only yourself. The question of whether you really want to do mend fences now, however, is something only you can decide.

Hi, didn't get a chance to rtft. But just wanted to put a different view out- no one can predict if she will commit suicide or not. I lost a family member to suicide, no one believed he would do it. He was manipulative, volatile and dramatic. But we loved him. Only go no contact, if you can be aure if she does commint suicide, you will have no regrets and be sure it was the right decision for you all. Suicide is extremely final (obviously) and you don't want to spend the rest of your life regretting your actions. Having said that, instead of telling her its a definite no contact situation, perhaps you could say fine you can see them as long as you are appropriate. Then be mostly busy and just check in with her yourself on occasion.
Sorry if I've missed any details which would mean you need to be more confrontational but the bad behaviour and insults sound like mental health to me, so was just adding a different pov.
My family regret every day we didn't seek treatment earlier for the person we lost.

Have you sat down with her an explained why you are so upset? Does she understand her how much her thoughtless comment hurt your DD's? Has she had the opportunity to apologise to them properly?

I find it hard to believe you would go NC with her after just this comment, there must be a backstory.

I don't care if it's a mistake or an isolated incident - it's what happens next.

Did she show remorse, did she bend backwards to make amends, did she give her grandchildren time and space to process this and tell them how much she unconditionally love them both the same and when THEY are ready to forgive HER, she will be there waiting?

Did she fuck.

You let me see them now or I kill myself, is what she said next.

I'd tell her she just demonstrated exactly why you're not allowing contact.

She said something she should have kept to herself.
It must be difficult when the world changes and everything you were taught is now altered. I guess she was brought up differently, like you say the change has come there fairly recently. She possibly finds it very hard to accept.
building bridges is much better than burning them in my book.

This type of comment about skin colour could scar your children for life. All your mother has done is confirm that you were right to protect your children from her. In the future she may threaten suicide to them if they don't give her enough attention. They may end up very disturbed.

Totally agree with trollspoop. And why does the op have to build bridges?

Bloody hell, don't families just have arguments and move on anymore?

Total over reaction on your part.

You say that she was a good mother for the most part. Ok, she's made an insensitive comment. She has apologised. You can rant and rave, and tell her how it upset you. But after that, just move on. You don't cut out your mother, FGS.

You use a lot of emotional language.....

"It kills me inside"

and in relation to your daughters......"my first responsibility is to my children - if they don't want to see their grandmother because it will bring up sour memories for them, I'm not going to put them through that"

So, she's been a good grandmother for 14 years and now, one insensitive comment and they don't want to see her ever again

You sound as melodramatic as your mother, and you seem to be passing this trait on to your daughters.

You are using your children as a weapon to hurt your Mum. You seem to be full of hatred.

There has to be a HUGE backstory, either that, or you are really, really cruel.