To not change my stance even in the face of my mother threatening suicide?

[SABaby]

Several months ago, I cut my mother out my family’s life due to the repulsive comments she made to my daughters regarding their appearance. My kids are half black/half white (14 and 11). DD1 has olive skin and DD2 has light caramel skin. The last time their grandmother saw them, she told my babies that it’s a shame DD2 doesn’t have her older sister’s lighter skin tone. And that DD2 would be so much prettier if she had her sister’s olive skin tone. This greatly upset both my children.

When I found out, the rage that consumed me was overwhelming. I had it out with my mother and told her that I never want her anywhere near my kids and my husband again. Over the last few months, my mum has been bombarding family members, telling them about my “cruelty.” Last week I received a letter from her – it stated that without the joy of her grandkids, she sees no point in living anymore.

Now, this isn’t the first time my mother has threatened to kill herself. She’s never done it directly to me, but a few times to my dad. I remember when I was a little girl, she once took a knife and pointed it to her stomach – she told my dad she would stab herself if he went out for a drink with his colleagues that night (I kid you not). She’s always been the melodramatic and manipulative type.

When I got the letter, I called my mother and we spoke on the phone. I told her I can see her, but my children just can’t be around her. I don’t want them recalling what happened. When I told her the kids are still off-limits for her, she reiterated her suicidal threats. Then she started shouting at me – saying how unfair and cruel I was being.
She hurt my daughters tremendously, and that’s something that I not only find hard to understand, but to forgive. And it’s something I’m not willing to risk for a second time.

It's an enormous thing to not see your child or grandchildren again though.

The absolute hardest thing I imagine.

Be sure she really deserves it, is all I can say.

children have their insecurities (I had mine as child) and even though I and DD2's dad have constantly reassured her, I note subliminal changes in her behaviour - changes that were non-existent prior her grandmother's comments

I am in my 40s and mixed race. A 'casual' comment from a family member had me trying to scrub the brown off me with bleach in the bath when I was 7. Until then I'd never thought about the fact that I was perceived as different.
I don't think the OP is being melodramatic at all. My mother was devastated to see how it affected me.
Colourism is a horrible thing to experience. I hope that your daughter comes to see that her GM is the one with the problem and it's not her, never her.

You might like to join the "stately homes" thread in relationships, op.

I think you're right to protect your daughters with no contact. I would give serious thought to protecting yourself the same way.

Just saw that you live in SA. I'm rather surprised that colour of skin is something that your dd2 at age 11 has "never thought about".

saracrewe - Both my daughters were heavily distraught over it. South Africa is a country enveloped in a maelstrom of racial hang-ups. I mentioned before to another poster that I and my husband spoke to our kids long before what happened with grandma - specifically because we knew that they would experience similar things as they grew older. They already get it at places like school. Regarding school, DD2 has never been affected by comments made by kids her age at school. But to have her own grandmother tell her she's less attractive because she has darker skin, hit her hard.

Perhaps I'm being OTT, but my first responsibility is to my children - if they don't want to see their grandmother because it will bring up sour memories for them, I'm not going to put them through that.

I had comments thrown at me by family members as a child about my appearance. Little off the cuff remarks that they never gave much thought to.

I still recall them now. They still hurt me now.

So imo YANBU and I would not allow your DD's to see her until older and only then if they chose to.

I also say this as someone with toxic family members including an auntie who says in front of DD that her long hair looks "weird",. I just explain to DD that auntie has some strange viewpoints, but I don't go NC.

Perhaps you could say that she could see them again IF they want to and if she sits down and has a full discussion with them and apologises frankly to them and admits she was wrong. It may not happen though.

I don't think it's over-dramatic to be emotionally affected when your child is questioning herself over something as trivial as skin tone.

I think that in one way all children question themselves about trivial stuff and that it is important for adults to react calmly and proportionately. I think your reaction may be making things worse and making this into a bigger deal than it is.
BUT you then say this:

Even long before what happened with her grandmother, I and my husband spoke to our kids about it (colourism is a huge problem here).

So I think you are obviously living somewhere where the racism issues are bigger than Granny's comments. So this possibly makes it less 'trivial' than it appears at first inspection and more difficult to solve.

I do note you are ignoring my comments. Maybe it's just personal :) but also maybe you actively want to go NC? Which is also fair enough if that's what you want.

I dunno, it was an unfortunate comment (and I speak as a mixed race person) but I don't think worth cutting contact over. My mum is always making rude and tactless remarks but she's my mum and I just let them blow over me and plough on.

I also think if this is an isolated incidence yabu and OTT. Your reaction is probably having a more damaging effect that what your DM actually said

I agree

Sorry - I took you're 'we're South African' comment to refer to your origins but from more recent posts, it's clear you still live there.

You are very very definitely NOT BU in that context. As you say, racism over colour of skin is a huge issue still there and has a terrible history, and of course that would affect your dds deeply.

(It would have been helpful if you'd made that background clear in your OP btw).

In a country where racism has been so accepted in the past, it may be hard for your dm to change. You and your dds will have to decide if you can live with it.

But your primary concern right now shouldn't be on whether or not you make up with your dm, but on building up your two beautiful dds' confidence and happiness. Your dm is a grown up - she can sort her own issues out, if she cares to.

saracrewe - "Never thought about it" was worded poorly. I should have rather said, "it didn't bother her." For her, it's one thing for some random person at school to say something - it's completely different for her grandmother to say something.

GaryGilmore - Thank you. Thank you so much for writing your own experience on the issue.

Unfortunately although she hasn't thought about it, racism IS an issue she will at some point have to deal with. Of course it's wrong and worse coming from her grandmother.

Her grandmother will also need to confront her own racism too.

I think the fact you are in South Africa makes it more of an issue (for the posters seeing it as something trivial - personally I think it would be pretty unforgivable in the UK as well - but it's that times a million in South Africa).

It may be easier just to go NC OP?

She sounds a bigoted drama queen with no awareness or respect and living (in her mind) 30 years ago even though the rest of us celebrate we are not.

Until she can mentally grow up I would NC

You sound so thoughtful and caring OP.

Lou - I'm sorry, I'm not ignoring you. Just juggling between a few things at the moment :). I completely understand where you're coming from. And I'm not going NC lightly. Believe me. But combined with my mother not fully grasping the damage she did, along with my daughters' reluctance to be around her, I just don't think its a good idea

heron98 -- Fair enough. Each to her/his own.

YADNBU.

I wouldn't allow my DC to be around such a disgusting person. No way would I allow my DC to be hurt in this manner.

Call her out on her suicide threats and tell her to crack on with it! (You know she won't!)

Devilish - Yes, colourism and racial dynamics in general, are a huge issue in South Africa. A couple of years ago, DD1 was playing netball for her school. The school they visited and played against had a social clique - this clique only consisted of girls who were of a certain shade of light skin.

I'm not sure how she could think suicide threats could make this better, she is effectively trying to manipulate your children with it - to me that would be almost as bad as the original comments.

If she actually cared about what she has done to them she would have written a letter expressing her regret and telling them that they were both beautiful. Then she could have followed it up by asking to have a photograph session with her beautiful grand-daughters whenever they felt able to see her again.

I understand it's different as you are in SA but it does seem OTT. Many many people have connected on my skin tone (which is what this is, not race) - family, friends, random people on the street. I'm very pale. I don't enjoy the comments but it's just an opinion.

for the posters seeing it as something trivial - personally I think it would be pretty unforgivable in the UK as well - but it's that times a million in South Africa

To be clear it was the op who used the word trivial, I don't think it is trivial which is why I said she wasn't BU to go NC before saying anything else. I was just about her depth of reaction to it, but if she regularly comes up against this kind of racism in relation to her dd's it must be very difficult to deal with.

Before making the decision to go NC, research narcissism as your mother sounds like she has that tendency.
My DM was extremely melodramatic, selfish and self-absorbed and I struggled to have a meaningful relationship for most of my adult life (she has passed now) but once I realised she was a narcissist it really helped me come to terms with her behaviour.
Anyway, that's only my experience and you may feel differently.
I do understand where you're coming from though and think you need to stand your ground on this issue. It's not as if your DM is profusely apologising. She is trying to make the issue yours ie she is accepting no responsibility for doing wrong but rather trying to blame/badmouth you. This is classic narcissistic behaviour.

Things that are said to you as a child tend to stay with you well into adulthood. So many PPs have already said that, and I too as someone who in my mid-50s remember things that were said casually by adults to me, and affected how I saw myself.

I don't blame you for not wanting your DM around your DDs. And I don't think it's something you brush off with a "oh that's just something your batty Grandma said". If your DDs don't want to be around her then so be it. Maybe they'll change their minds in a couple of years, maybe not. They don't need that kind of poisonous racist negativity in their lives.

Tough tiddlywinks for Grandma - you're never too old to learn about actions and consequences. Tell her she's got some free time to learn how to be a loving non-biased Grandma, because that is one thing she clearly isn't right now.