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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

999 replies

windygallows · 09/04/2017 22:18

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

OP posts:

millifiori · 16/04/2017 09:45

I totally agree a woman should encourage her daughter to 'marry well'. But for me, that would mean:
marry a man who loves you and respects you,
who will support any decisions you make to enhance your career and education
who will be pleased for you when you are successful, not envious
who is 100% active as a father, chaning nappies, doing night feeds, helping with bathtime and homework etc
who - and this is CRUCIAL - if you are a SAHM, respects the value of that incredibly important work and doesn't keep you short of money or subtly imply that it's OK for him to have endless rugger weekends with the boys and take himself off to the golf course because 'he's earned it' while you care for kids 24/7 and have no adult connection with him. (I know scores of women married to rich men who live a version of this life. We're much poorer and much much happier. DH mucks in with 50% of all work and I earn 50% or our income. It's made our marriage rock solid.)
Marry a man who loves you when you are ill, unhappy, chubby or too skinny, irrational at times - who understands you are a human being, not a trophy.
That's marrying well.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 09:47

Yes milli - couldn't agree more. It's a long term partnership you are aiming for, not a 'fine for now' one.

surferjet · 16/04/2017 09:52

There's a weird view on MN that any man who earns a lot of money is a complete arse. The 'struggling painter' is just as likely to be a dick.

Any way.
Happy Easter.

PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2017 09:53

There's a weird view on MN that any man who earns a lot of money is a complete arse. The 'struggling painter' is just as likely to be a dick.

That's not the point though. Some posters are saying not to marry the struggling painter even if he is wonderful because he doesn't earn enough money. It's the deliberate targeting of someone for their money that's objectionable.

IAmAmy · 16/04/2017 09:56

Exactly. No-one's criticised any man who earns a lot of money, in fact the only criticism has been of women who do suggesting it'd harm a marriage

user1490465531 · 16/04/2017 10:20

if I was married to a rich man I would worry that I would have to be some trophy wife in order to keep him as money does attract women and in the back of my mind I'd worry he might swap me for a younger/prettier woman.

ElisavetaFartsonira · 16/04/2017 10:24

It's great to have a good well paid job if you're single, or married & childless. But once you have kids it's much easier to have a man who can support you all for a few years.
Very few woman want to go back to work when their baby is just 6 months old. & any woman who says she's more than happy to leave her pfb all day at a nursery is probably lying.

Because obviously, families with two working parents must inevitably be using childcare, right...

You're suffering from the same problem as OP here surferjet. That is, failing to understand that for those of us who do want to be able work when we have young children (which doesn't necessarily mean being away from them all day or doing long hours either) a partner whose only contribution is money may be actively detrimental.

It's not about a high earner being an arse. I don't see any reason to assume they're any more or less likely to be so than the rest of the population. It's about them being likely to need to work the sort of hours that mean everything family and household related falls to you. That would make many of our lives harder, not easier.

user1471439727 · 16/04/2017 10:24

So because some women don't want to work, they should sponge off a man and all will be well.

OP, you sound like an entitled twat.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 10:59

At our old school there were a few second and third family dad where their wives seemed to stay in the under 40s age range.

I gave up to to guess fairly quickly who was who after I told a nursery child to take something to grandpa and it was his dad (ok so he was in his sixties and had kids from his first marriage who weren't much younger than me, so not a wild assumption).

One mum told me that she was getting into shape since she hit 40 so that her husband didn't go off with his assistant. I believe she had been his assistant before...

I couldn't be doing with that stress!

I do that want to be taken care of - my mum and dad did that for the first 20 years of my life then I moved out and got a job and a mortgage.

Jellybeancatpaws · 16/04/2017 13:11

Sure, marry for money. Go ahead. But when you find you can barely tolerate your DH, and that all the money in the world can't sweeten the pill of a loveless marriage,don't think anyone else is going to be interested in hearing about it.

You make your bed, you lie on it.

Brokenbiscuit · 16/04/2017 13:33

It's great to have a good well paid job if you're single, or married & childless. But once you have kids it's much easier to have a man who can support you all for a few years.
Very few woman want to go back to work when their baby is just 6 months old. & any woman who says she's more than happy to leave her pfb all day at a nursery is probably lying.
Why would you want that?

I went back to work when dd was 6 months old, and yes, I wanted to go back. Why would I lie about that? I loved my job and found that it gave me a sense of achievement as well as the satisfaction of being able to use my skills to make a positive difference in the world. It also gave me financial independence, an identity outside the home and lots of social contact. I didn't want to end up like my sahp mother, who is plagued by sadness and regrets about her wasted talent and potential.

And no, I didn't choose to put my dd in nursery - fortunately, being a good earner gave me options and I was able to employ a wonderful nanny in our own home for a few hours a day. Doing half of my work in the evenings enabled me to split the rest of the childcare with dh. It worked for us.

If you want to sah with your kids, then good luck to you, but please don't assume that all women would choose to do the same if they could. It would be my worst nightmare tbh. And if my dd chooses to sah in the future, then obviously I will support her choice, but yes, if I'm honest, I hope that she aspires to more than this, and I hope that I've given her a really good example of how it's possible to combine a fulfilling career and a happy family life.

IAmAmy · 16/04/2017 13:37

Similar has happened with my family although my mother's work is during the day. Her career has always been rightly important to her. It doesn't make her any less of a mum - far from it, she's fantastic.

The notion that girls should or do aspire to marrying a wealthy man is risible.

lizzieoak · 16/04/2017 14:03

Brokenbiscuit, this is a serious question: if you didn't think you'd feel a sense of accomplishment raising a child and that you wouldn't enjoy a baby's company all day - why did you want kids?

I don't say this to judge - it's just such a different way about of looking at family I've always wondered. I hear women in my office saying they can't wait for the Christmas holidays or summer break to be over so that their kids go back to school - whereas I miss them when they go back (if I'm not working) & feel badly for them as I know they'd rather stay on break.

GetAHaircutCarl · 16/04/2017 14:07

lizzie can't speak for anyone else but I want work satisfaction and a family.

Just like millions of men out there.

IAmAmy · 16/04/2017 14:19

I'm sure fathers feel a sense of accomplishment from raising their children, no-one ever questions why they wanted children if they don't stay at home with them.

GetAHaircutCarl · 16/04/2017 14:22

No one ever ask men why they bother becoming parents if they're just gonna work.

Even the ones who work full time .

lizzieoak · 16/04/2017 14:32

I see your points - and I honestly wasn't being goady!

I guess I assume men are mostly missing the heck out of their kids when at work. My exh didn't and I thought he was weird.

It's just that some people say they "couldn't wait" to go back to work, which seems a shame to me when there's a lovely, loving baby at
Home.

PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2017 14:34

I guess I assume men are mostly missing the heck out of their kids when at work. My exh didn't and I thought he was weird.

Some people are just really good at compartmentalising. It doesn't make someone a bad parent to be in full work mode when they're there.

lizzieoak · 16/04/2017 14:37

I suck at compartmentalising, so that makes sense. It tears me up to be stuck at work if my kids need me (and one is grown up now).

GetAHaircutCarl · 16/04/2017 14:39

Of course men aren't missing their kids all day long at work.

Nor when they socialise with friends or go out with their partners.

Being a parent doesn't mean that you no longer enjoy doing anything except look after your DC.

RainbowsAndUnicorn · 16/04/2017 14:45

I love being a parent but I love my job too. It doesn't have to be one r the other. Being a SAHP in no way makes someone a better parent.

It suits us very well, neither of us feels hard done to by being made to be the sole earner, we share the household stuff and the children see both of us working as a team sharing everything fully. I wouldn't want them exposed to men work and women don't as it's outdated and sexist.

lizzieoak · 16/04/2017 14:51

Getahaircut - when my kids were babies I did miss them if I went out w friends! That's not unusual, not based on friends of mine anyway.

Batteriesallgone · 16/04/2017 15:00

Oh god it's turned into one of those threads. Tis the law of mumsnet.

Has anyone said 'I'm raising my own children' yet?

I see SAHM being outdated and sexist has already been mentioned. My bingo card is nearly full

Brokenbiscuit · 16/04/2017 15:36

Brokenbiscuit, this is a serious question: if you didn't think you'd feel a sense of accomplishment raising a child and that you wouldn't enjoy a baby's company all day - why did you want kids?

I have always loved my dd's company and would have no issue with spending all day with her, but I wouldn't feel that I was fulfilling my own potential if that was all I did. As for getting a sense of accomplishment from raising my dd, I don't know - I get immense satisfaction from watching her grow and develop, and I feel tremendous pride and pleasure when I see the person she is becoming. Being a parent is immensely rewarding, and it's probably the most important thing in my life. However, is raising a happy, well-balanced child an accomplishment on my part? I don't really see it that way, as it seems to assume that the credit for all of dd's good qualities is mine rather than hers.

I know what you mean - I've never felt like that. However, I think that's partly because I have a life of my own outside the home beyond just being a parent.

lizzieoak · 16/04/2017 15:42

Thanks bb :)

When people compliment me on my kids and say I've done a good job w them I feel uncomfortable too as i don't know how much is nature, how much nurture. Also I find it hard to take compliments! I do know I taught them manners though, and to love animals, to protect the underdog, etc. They may have got there on their own, but I do think parenting comes into it, so I do feel a sense of accomplishment. Also just for keeping them safe when they were little! And organizing their lives when little and getting healthy food down them.

It's women I've worked w who can't wait for their holidays to be over as of they're doing staycations their kids get on their nerves :(

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