Future DIL WWYD

[Notwavingimdrowning]

Huge backstory that I've posted about before under a different username, so I will keep it quite brief ! My future DIL hates my family for some reason that we don't know about, despite practically begging for her to explain what we did / do that makes her hate us so much and therefore be able to sort it out. I know that MIL get a really bad time on MN, but can honestly say that we have been nothing but kind and welcoming to her from the beginning, if anything I admit probably over compensating for the rude way she behaves. She is coldly polite in front of my DS, but will completely blank us if we bump into her when she is on her own. ( in a relationship with DS for 10 years and she has always been this way). I have spent so much time analysing every conversation that we have had to figure out if I have offended her in some way but she hates us all as a family and refers to us as losers, overheard by a very close friend that she didn't realise knew who she was. We are just a normal family, live in a lovely but modest house and have never been in trouble so I don't understand why she considers us to be losers.
Anyway, we work in the same field but not in the same place, but recently I had to visit the department where she works, several times in the same day. I was with a very senior member of staff who knows both of us and knows she is engaged to my DS but is not aware of how she behaves towards me. On 3 separate occasions she saw me and though I said hello, made a point of turning her back to me in order to not have to acknowledge me. At one point I was actually close enough to reach out and touch her ( I didn't !) before she marched off to a different area away from me. By this point it was completely obvious to the manager that there was an issue and when we left he discreetly asked me about it and to my utter shame I started to cry and told him everything. I felt totally humiliated and embarrassed, but he was lovely and advised me to speak to my DS. I did and he must have asked her about it as I've now received a text from her to say that she's sorry, she didn't see me, I was mistaken as she was so busy, she would never deliberately ignore me, blah blah blah, but it just isn't true and definitely not how it happened. I decided today that enough is enough and I will no longer spend any more time worrying about her and trying to make her like us. I know that you cannot force someone to be respectful and I finally decided to leave them to get on with their lives and stop trying to be part of it, as much as it breaks my heart to essentially cut off my DS, as I also realised that I actually blame my DS for allowing this to go on for 10 years.
WWYD ? So far I haven't replied to the text. Would you ignore ? Reply with the truth, so essentially call her a liar ? I'm not going to say I was mistaken because I wasn't ! I know she saw me, she knows she saw me. Please wise people of MN tell me what to do.

I fully accept that I am rather over invested in this thread and I have worked out why!

When I was married the first time (VERY young) I could have been the OP's DiL or Gamma*, though I hope not quite as rude (I was probably a bit too cunning for that). Tbf ex MiL and I had virtually zilch in common, but I gave her a hard time and perceived all kinds of non existent ills in her preceise BECAUSE she was my MiL. Funnily enough my own mother got on really well with her and her other DiL was better than any daughter to her. My first marriage didn't last the course (quelle surprise).

I was nearly 50 when I married the second time: I'd grown up a bit by then. I had no more in common with my second MiL (sadly no longer around) than my first but it was precisely BECAUSE she was my MiL and I adored my DH (still do!) that I made every effort to get on with her and regard her as my own family.

So I guess the moral of this tale is when the OP's DiL and maybe Gamma have grown up a bit, things may change!

Exactly Edballs, you hit the nail on the head.

Sadly this does not bode well for your son. My advice would be, to do nothing because you cannot reason with unreasonable people.

My son's first partner was like this. After two hours of travelling to see them she would take the children out half an hour before we arrived. She would leave during a visit if the slightest thing upset her. Like my son not moving quick enough to wipe the child's mouth. The torment that she put my son through was awful. Including violent behaviour. He said that he would have been in prison if he had done things to her that she did to him. Eventually he left as she threatened to take the children abroad if he did not. Then there was a five year court battle over access. Fortunately he confided in us and we kept our relationship with him.

I am now seeing a similar thing in another family, where the son is being isolated. Even refused to visit his sick mother because it interferes with family time. Everyone will say these men should stand up for themselves. It is not that easy when you are in the role.

My advice is keep contact with your son, but pretend the DiL does not exist.

Aw shucks Aeroflot

I hope my future kid's partners do too actually. I would hate them to waste precious time on me if they didn't want to. I am not rude or nasty to my mil, I just refuse to travel 600 miles to see her as I would find it tedious and a waste of my time. My husband is free to go whenever, and take the kids (as long as not xmas of their birthday) and funnily enough, doesn't seem that keen to ever go either.

It sounds like a form of abuse and emotional manipulation from op DIL towards her son, who knows what goes on behind closed doors, or what he does not tell you.

Well that's your choice, and that sounds fine, what is not fine is how the ops DIL is treating her.

OP what a horrible situation for you. I don't have any advice for you as my father is NC with my children and I because of his second wife. It didn't matter what I did she would manipulate situations or even completely make things up to make me look bad. When I eventually confronted them after years of her behaviour my father denied everything that had happened even though we had previous conversations about those things. He then cut us off. Other relatives have said to me that they are worried about my father and fear that he is in a controlling and abusive relationship - financial and emotional abuse. Could something similar be the case with your DS's partner? I don't agree with PP saying there must be something that you have done or said. In my case the reason is that I was close to my father and now that she has got rid of me she is turning on my siblings one by one. It could be that your son in being manipulated or controlled in the same way?

But also of course, where is your son in this?

He could have invited more from "his side" to the house warming.

He could have sat with you at the restaurant.

We spent more time with my parents as we both found them easier to get on with.

Gamma you are entitled to your opinion but the contempt you feel towards your MiL and IL's is obvious in your writing.

You are so bloody cold, thank fuck your MiL lives 600 miles away , at least it spares her having to deal with your obvious hostility and her only crime is being boring .

gamma is being unfair only if her MIL misses out in her DGC as a result. Because if they stay in family home while she visits her DMum, or they visit with her at the same frequency they visit their other grandparent with her DH, then it might be a little odd but at least it's fair.

If however it's one set ostracised and one set close then that's a horrible family dynamic and one I would never allow to creep up.

Penny, please don't cut your Son off. You are his Mother, he may have to tow the line, to keep his marriage. Don't let her jeopardise your relationship, keep the door open.
On a different note, I personally, couldn't put myself through that Wedding, knowing what was in store. Could you book a lovely break for you and your DH ?
There again, if she has said, she doesn't have a problem, brazen if out, and go and visit them .... what then 🤔

gamma but you are modelling behaviour for your children.

So when they have a partner they don't ever have to bother coming to see you and will exclude you from your Grandchildren's parties too.

OP I would point out that the manager clocked her behaviour and that he was the one who asked you about it. She can't escape from that. I would point out that it was professionally embarrassing for her and her alone.

We have all worked with people we don't like, but you are polite and cordial and get on.

In the beginning I didn't get on with my PIL, they were very different to me and in some instances rude, belittling, and overbearing. However, we did go on to have their only Grandchildren, and so we have always made an effort to see them.

We have had one giant almighty argument and we laid it all out for them so they could see our side. They countered with theirs. We hashed it out, drew a line under it and moved on. That was over a decade ago and we did become friends.

Op I'm so sorry. My first response when reading your post was to cut them both out of your life, to refuse to attend the wedding and to feel deeply ashamed of your son. But having read the comments about domestic abuse I think maybe keep the lines of communication open with your ds. I'd tell him that my boss agrees that dil was blanking me so I'll have nothing more to do with her. I hope to always stay in touch with you and my future grandchildren but I won't be treated like shit anymore.

I'd probably not go to the wedding, it would be an awful day.

I know someone who is so kind and sweet. Her dil can't stand her, we're not sure why. It's up to her son to bring her grandson over.

While you're all having a go at gramma, it's worth saying that her posts are probably the most helpful on here for giving an insight into what is possibly the DiL's mindset and I think it's pretty brave to spell it out like that so the OP can see how little point there is trying to build bridges - just as there is little point telling gramma how wrong she is or how she'll regret it. Clearly on one side (MiL's) there is a lot of emotion, while on the other there is none, for what reason we don't know, but if there's no genuine or dutiful inclination on the DiL's part, then its a non-starter.

For what it's worth, I'm not quite in the same ballpark, but I definitely don't click with my in-laws and keep things to a minimum. I'd never blank them in public, but I am often out/'busy' if they're visiting and can see gramma's pov that it's liberating to evade such trying obligations, especially if the DH isn't close to his family either, which mine isn't. They're nice people but just very different to me, and it seems from OP's experience of the DiL's family that they're also very different and it's no surprise really that the DiL is how she is. Doesn't mean she's abusive, and if the DS is happy then it's ultimately his choice, unfortunately.

In the OP's case, I wouldn't ignore the text, because it just makes OP look bad if DiL appears to have reached out and OP won't engage. I wouldn't overplay or underplay it, just be straight: 'Thank you, but I know that you did see me. It was commented on by others, which was very embarrassing. Please at least pretend to be civil in public in future.'

I have to say, I think this is an issue between yu and your ds now.
She doesn't want to see you and have nothing to do with you, even in professional circumstances where she ought to raise above whatever issue she has.
It did reflect badly in HER in HER own work place.I would have thought she would have been more careful about it.

I would t respond to her but have a chat with your ds.
Have a think first, are you happy to still have a relationship with him? Or have you feeling to pushed aside by HIM that you think it's not worth it anymore?
Then let him know that the incident at work, after a very long list of previous incidents, has been the last straw that broke the camel back.
You won't make any more specific effort to see her or interact with her.
HOWEVER! It is now up to him to decide if HE wants a relationship with HIS family.
Tell him that you really are very happy to see him (if you do), tell him he will always be welcome in your house. But that you will not be treated with so much disrespect that it is obvious even to outsiders that don't know anything about what is going on.
Then leave the ball in his camp.

Interesting. I think this is a similar situation to my DM and SiL although they live miles apart.

Always had the impression that SiL despises DM and only tolerates her on the very few occasions they visit.
SiL even thinks nothing of slagging off DM in front of me!

It is very liberating to only say "yes" to things you actually want to do. Maybe you should all try it? Why spend your whole life obliged to do things, when you don't want to? We are all much happier

Really? Or is it just you?

Btw I would also be aware that your ds might well be acting as gramma DH.
So far, your ds has shown to be quite spineless (sorry) and ready to accept a lot as to not upset his DP.
I suspect he would also probably not what to make that special effort if that means grumbles in thenother side 'you are always going to see them', 'I had planned a nice day out for us' etc....

In MN, I think you have a DS issue there, not just a DIL issue.....

She's preparing the ground for when they marry by asserting her will, her family over yours. Seen it all before sadly...
Best way to deal with it is to confront assertively, coldly even. You have to establish strong boundaries and refuse to be treated with contempt. If your son has sat back and not intervened and called her out on her behaviour, then he needs a good talking to too. Pretending everything is alright will damage relationships not improve them.

I love the idea of booking a holiday instead of attending the wedding. Take the power back. Instead of worrying about how badly you'll be treated at the wedding you can look forward to a lovely break instead

I personally would reply to the message with a 'thank you for apologising, glad it was a misunderstanding' and not mention it to her again. Why? Because unfortunately in this situation unless you genuinely don't mind the risk of losing a relationship with your son, I don't see how you can 'win'.

If you stand up for yourself you're the irrational overbearing mother in law. If you try and instigate a calm chat, you're the needy mother in law who won't stop harassing her after all these years.

I'd accept the situation exactly as it is. It's not fair but the most freeing thing you can do is say, I tried and it didn't work. This is how she is, after ten years she won't change and life's too short to try and make her.

Then I would continue to take an interest in my sons life. Invite them both to functions, knowing she won't come, but never giving your son a reason to feel put in the middle. I wouldn't go overboard, but I'd maintain a polite friendliness.

If you see her at work say good morning DIL. She ignores it? Never mind, that's her problem. Basically unless she is going to start outright lying, I'd give no ammunition at all.

Then focus on your husband, other children, wider family and friends. Fill your time with as much lovely stuff and people as you can.

Some might say that this is a cop out and she's getting away with it. But sometimes rather than trying to prove you're right, the best thing is to know in yourself you tried your best and then let go. The sad thing is if he has to choose the likelihood it's not going to be his family. So if you can live with that, push on.

I wish you all the best and hope you find some peace with it all.

She's a manipulative little mare, she knows full well what she is doing, and how dare she?
i don't get how people can treat others that way. especially the parents of the man she proclaims to love.
I do feel that the more obvious times to have brought it up would have been when she slammed the door in your face, or when she was caught talking about what losers your family are.
She's a nasty piece of work either way.

What a sensible post Books It's war you can't win.

OP I would point out that the manager clocked her behaviour and that he was the one who asked you about it. She can't escape from that. I would point out that it was professionally embarrassing for her and her alone.

Absolutely agree.
Please don't feel bad about crying, it was a natural reaction, IMO.
I don't know what to advise long term, tbh. It's a very strange situation.