Future DIL WWYD

[Notwavingimdrowning]

Huge backstory that I've posted about before under a different username, so I will keep it quite brief ! My future DIL hates my family for some reason that we don't know about, despite practically begging for her to explain what we did / do that makes her hate us so much and therefore be able to sort it out. I know that MIL get a really bad time on MN, but can honestly say that we have been nothing but kind and welcoming to her from the beginning, if anything I admit probably over compensating for the rude way she behaves. She is coldly polite in front of my DS, but will completely blank us if we bump into her when she is on her own. ( in a relationship with DS for 10 years and she has always been this way). I have spent so much time analysing every conversation that we have had to figure out if I have offended her in some way but she hates us all as a family and refers to us as losers, overheard by a very close friend that she didn't realise knew who she was. We are just a normal family, live in a lovely but modest house and have never been in trouble so I don't understand why she considers us to be losers.
Anyway, we work in the same field but not in the same place, but recently I had to visit the department where she works, several times in the same day. I was with a very senior member of staff who knows both of us and knows she is engaged to my DS but is not aware of how she behaves towards me. On 3 separate occasions she saw me and though I said hello, made a point of turning her back to me in order to not have to acknowledge me. At one point I was actually close enough to reach out and touch her ( I didn't !) before she marched off to a different area away from me. By this point it was completely obvious to the manager that there was an issue and when we left he discreetly asked me about it and to my utter shame I started to cry and told him everything. I felt totally humiliated and embarrassed, but he was lovely and advised me to speak to my DS. I did and he must have asked her about it as I've now received a text from her to say that she's sorry, she didn't see me, I was mistaken as she was so busy, she would never deliberately ignore me, blah blah blah, but it just isn't true and definitely not how it happened. I decided today that enough is enough and I will no longer spend any more time worrying about her and trying to make her like us. I know that you cannot force someone to be respectful and I finally decided to leave them to get on with their lives and stop trying to be part of it, as much as it breaks my heart to essentially cut off my DS, as I also realised that I actually blame my DS for allowing this to go on for 10 years.
WWYD ? So far I haven't replied to the text. Would you ignore ? Reply with the truth, so essentially call her a liar ? I'm not going to say I was mistaken because I wasn't ! I know she saw me, she knows she saw me. Please wise people of MN tell me what to do.

It could be possible that there's some dynamic in your family which is normal for you and seems relatively harmless but to your DIL it seems abnormal and harmful. I've seen this in my family as well as ils in several ways.

For eg. I have an issue with my mil in the sense that she's great unless bil and sil are around, at which point she becomes rude and snitty to me, puts dh and the dc down lots. She denies this. Dh used to deny it, it was normal for him. Eventually it came to a head and I just refuse to deal with his family en masse. I'm always out/have plans if they bother wanting to see us at a decent time or I refuse to put my dc out when it's a stupid time (like 8pm meals when they just become targets for put downs as oddly it's past bedtime and they act up ).

The last time bil and sil visited dh finally saw how little we were viewed when they were about and has finally started standing up for the dcs. Mil doesn't get it, but I don't care - dh knows and agrees that contact when bil and sil are about is best minimised. I also get the last laugh though because I'm the one who's encouraged dh to visit his dn several times on his own if it wasn't suitable for the dc to go, so I've ruined their narrative of the nasty wife

''she hates us all as a family and refers to us as losers, overheard by a very close friend that she didn't realise knew who she was. We are just a normal family, live in a lovely but modest house and have never been in trouble so I don't understand why she considers us to be losers.''

So as far as i can see this is the only time you've actually heard it from the horses mouth, as they say. That she does dislike you. Did you ask your son about this at the time? How can he dismiss that?

Your path to resovling this (if there is one) is through your son. Tell him you want the truth no matte how bad it is.

matter

gammaraystar You come across as someone who has absolutely no social awareness or manners. Your rudeness is breath-taking. Are you always this socially inept?

When you marry someone you become a member of their family, whether you like it or not. Surely, for your husband’s and children’s sake isn’t life much easier if you try to get on with your in-laws? Your childish attitude just makes for an uncomfortable atmosphere at family gatherings. And by not going to them you just show yourself up for the rude person you are.

Life is too short indeed, so why be a horrible DIL and make your husband feel that he has to choose between you and his mother? Are you always this unpleasant?

You need to grow up and be a good example to your children. Life is about making compromises and it is a lesson that needs to be learned sooner rather than later.

I read this completely torn between two possibilities:

1. This woman has serious social issues, doesn't care about being rude, and is generally just a horrible person. In which case, it becomes about creating as good a relationship with your DS as possible in the circumstances, and ensuring that he knows you fully support him - while ignoring her completely graceless behaviour.

1. There is another side to this story, where the DIL (rightly or wrongly) has taken umbrage at something that has rankled over the years. The fact that there is a class difference in play (the whole 'losers'/modest house thing) makes me wonder if inadvertent offence has been given.

I think you need to speak to them both directly about this. You've been gifted an opportunity by this encounter at work to raise it - you've done so via text, but I would insist on meeting face-to-face and discussing directly. I realise this might be painful and difficult for you, but honestly it might also be the start of an ability to mend fences.

One of the reasons I'm pausing a little is that I have a slightly difficult relationship with my in laws. They are very well-meaning and they would probably say exactly the same thing as you, OP - that they've only ever tried to be lovely. And that would be true, in a way. But, the thing is, that they just don't listen. They try to control every second of our time on a visit, and DH and I both end up exhausted and thoroughly demoralised. They want to be entertained, in their way, doing things they want to do, from morning to night - and that includes a full day of National Trust visits and activities literally from 8am to midnight, interspersed with us providing crazy levels of catering from a full cooked breakfast to a three-course dinner which MUST include coffee and liqueurs.

However strongly we say that we are knackered, that DH has just worked a 70 hour week, that we don't want to run around for 16 hours a day, the demands just don't stop. They sit and listen and nod along and then turn around straight afterwards and say "What are we going to do today, then?" Furthermore, they can't relate to us emotionally at all - you apprach them with any kind of life stuff that is difficult and they talk about the weather!

The heartbreaking thing is that they want to spend much more time with us, to go on holiday for a week, and we just have to say no constantly. If they could only give us the space we're requesting, if only they could understand that we need time to unwind and relax and some moments to ourselves to sit quietly and read or be silent in a day, we'd spend more time with them. We know they mean well and aren't bad people, it's just that they are so controlling it makes life unendurable.

'Spineless', blue? As others have pointed out, he may be in a controlling relationship. Would you call a woman 'spineless' if the shoe was on the other foot?

The bit I find intriguing is the behaviour of the rest of her family. How appalling to ignore you and your husband at the earlier events. My guess is that this is a class thing. Do they consider themselves "above" you in a class sense? Genuinely upper class people don't behave like this as they are secure and self-assured. But insecure, "upwardly mobile" middle class types do behave in this way. And of course, all they are doing is demonstrating their own lack of manners, empathy and self-awareness.
As previous posters have said, try to maintain your relationship with your son and your other children, OP. I'd give up on the future DIL frankly.
And I wouldn't be putting much effort into wedding gifts for them!

where is your son in this?
He obviously is not prepared to make any effort to resolve this. Whilst you may have a DIL problem, the real issue is your DS. This is all about communication - you need to talk to your son and keep talking to him even when it gets difficult.

Like a lot of posters, I can see both sides. In an ideal world, we would all get on with our MILs, be endlessly patient and loving. But not many of us are able to do that.
My relationship with my MIL (and FIL) deteriorated over many years - death by a thousand cuts. No single thing ever massively upsetting or hurtful, but so many low grade problems that I simply stopped making any effort.
When I stopped engaging, it then fell to my DH to organise contact. Which he didn't. And of course I got the blame for the reduced contact because organising a meal or get together is wimmins work.

The final straw for me was when I took the DC round to see them and FIL never even came out of his room to say hello and MIL invited a doorstep market researcher into the house and went off to speak to them, so I am left sitting in their front room with the kids thinking 'I could be at home getting on with my life'.
I am sure my MIL never had a clue about why I stopped making an effort, but I know she blamed me for everything.

I'd get the manager to deal with it, it might give her something to think about.

This is such a sad thread - I really feel for you OP.

Bastard at first I thought you meant the manager should deal with the family dynamic and I was thinking awkward but actually hauling her over the coals for her visibly rude behaviour toward a business visitor might indeed be a wake up call and hopefully have her bricking it

I don't get how people are batting around he must be being emotionally abused, You don't know that for all you know he may have problems unspoken about with his mother also which is the likely cause, Why does everything have to be blamed on the dil? You don't know you haven't been given a lot to go on with her let's be honest, the dil hasn't actually said anything directly to the mil, the mil has just been told that. Who knows if the person is telling the truth who told her? Mil is just going on body language with alot of it, Some people aren't good at eye contact and can be socially awkward it's not exactly a crime.
Sounds all really petty to me and not worth hating her over.
Also not worth sending childish text messages over to get one up on her, If you do take peoples advice to do this, I think it shows that u are willing to jeopardise the relationship with your son, It will get u absolutely nowhere.

I think Gamma is possibly on the younger side of the demographic here - she reads quite like a younger version of me. Not that I ever cold shouldered my mil at all - we're like chalk and cheese but we both made the effort and enjoy a comfortable and familiar relationship as a result...no, she sounds stubbornly defiant and lacking a seasoned perspective just as young people often do. She says her mil isn't rude or nasty, she just doesn't like her. Whoopedoo for her.
I hope she can grow out of the youthful arrogance she seems to possess and make time for her husband's family in the future.

Likewise the OP's dil.

Very sad situation.

refers to us as losers, that's such a stupid and immature way to describe her future InLaws.

Is she a huge snob who bizarrely thinks she's a cut above you all?

the dil hasn't actually said anything directly to the mil,

True, but from what we see here she has DONE plenty! And it's far from petty. Sitting in the car and tooting the horn when she's had enough? Disappearing upstairs for a two hour visit? Seriously not petty? If you think this is petty I would hate to come across behaviour you would see as really rude!

Though I do agree that Penny should not get involved in a texting skirmish. That would be sinking to DiL's level.

Yes I would say spineless sorry.
Yes it is possible that he is in a controlling relationship. It's more likely that he just doesn't want to aggravation and can't be bothered to stand up to his partner/parents.
Like it t happens on so many threads on MN where the OP is told to talk to talk to their husband so they can tell their own parents that xx is extremely annoying and please could they stop.
It seems the OP's is unable to do exactely that or the issue is that there is nothing that they can do because there is no problem and then he would have to face the fact she just isn't a nice person

The horn tooting is abysmal. Soooo rude. What an asshole she is.

Just caught up with the thread so will try to clarify a few of the questions. Future DIL and I have never had any kind of relationship, this isn't a sudden change, she has always refused to engage and while that's sad but ok it isn't ok to be so bloody rude. At 1st we put it down to her being quite young and perhaps shy but 10 years on it's clear that she just isn't interested in any form of relationship at all. I'm sure that she is only like this to us as a family as she has lots of friends and certainly wouldn't be able to behave like this in our profession. I'm happy that she makes my son happy, it's never been a competition ( at least not from my side). I am positive that it isn't an abusive relationship in so much as we see DS 2 or 3 times a week ( they drive past our house on their way home) and he will call in sometimes, always alone. For those that asked why I'm angry at DS it's because I feel like he has allowed her to get away with being rude and I'm angry with myself that I have also allowed things to continue to the extent that it has had an impact at work now. Fortunately I don't visit her department very often ! I can see she makes my son happy and I am glad, it's just sad that it is at the expense of his family. I will continue being open and civil but am just not prepared to keep offering the olive branch and getting zero back.

pictish is right. She is shockingly rude.

I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to form a relationship with her after that. Having said that, I would be polite if our paths crossed. I just wouldn't waste my time or energy on her.

OP I would point out that the manager clocked her behaviour and that he was the one who asked you about it. She can't escape from that. I would point out that it was professionally embarrassing for her and her alone

I'm another who agrees with this.

I wouldn't be surprised if the DIL gets a kick out of the OP (and family?) "chasing" after her to find out what's wrong. Drop the rope in that regard. Refuse to engage.

Simply send her a text pointing out the bolded work situation above - don't include any family/personal stuff - and then stop engaging any further with her.

If you see your DS 2 or 3 times a week, then this issue with fDIL is not impacting on your life at all. Most people would not expect to see their grown children that often. He has made his own path through this problem and it is obviously working as you have loads of contact with him.

Your poor son

No, don't send her a text. Just leave it.

If it comes up in conversation with your son then say that the ignoring at work was the final straw.

She is rude and childish. Disengage.

I wouldn't tolerate DH treating my Mum like this. Hopefully your son will come to his senses before the wedding.

It sounds like she is used to getting her own way. If you disengage you won't be facilitating it.

Agree with Time
And actually I am not surprised if she is beeping the horn whilst waiting in the car if your ds is stopping to see you but, she wants to go back home after a day at work and your ds told her he would only be 5 mins.

Coming to see you 2 or 3 times a week is a lot and we certainly don't do with that with either my parents or DH's and I would say we are close to both of them....