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Original poster

my 12 year old DD and unwanted male attention

452 replies

crispandcheesesandwichplease · 09/04/2017 14:51

I've posted before about my DD getting unwanted attention form adult men. She's 12, she's developing but doesn't wear make up or skimpy clothes. She doesn't look particularly older than she is.

Today we're down by the riverside having a picnic. She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. We were sat reading and other people are around. A bloke, in his 40's I'd say, and 2 younger kids come and sit near us. The bloke immediately starts leering at my daughter. He sees me watching him look at her, I give him the Paddington bear hard stare. The kids he is with are messing about by the water and he's sorting them out with sun cream etc. He keeps looking over at my DD then at me, he knows I'm watching him.

After about 20 mins or so they gather their stuff to leave, he still keeps glancing at my daughter then at me. DD is oblivious to this, lost in her book. As they walk off I continue watching him, and he keeps turning round to look at my DD. Then, just before they disappear round the corner he turns to me and sticks his two fingers up at me!

Part of me was amused at his cheek but another part of me was furious. He was clearly letching at her and knew I'd clocked it, then he does that! What goes on in some men's head ffs???

OP posts:
PoochSmooch · 12/04/2017 17:49

I think Everyday Hebephilia might be more accurate? Hebephilia is being attracted to adolescents, and that's really what we're talking about here.

Anonymised stories, exactly like Everyday Sexism, pointing out the gauntlet of harassment that girls face every day. Could be very interesting, if by interesting we mean massively depressing Sad

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/04/2017 17:53

SoupDragon

You are correct, I extrapolated pictures from the previous part of the discussion.

NinonDeLenclos · 12/04/2017 19:28

The hostility is interesting because it shows how difficult people find it to accept this side of male behaviour. Women are as much invested as men.

Original poster
crispandcheesesandwichplease · 12/04/2017 20:08

Why do you think that is Ninon?

If I'd come on here posting my despair at casual and offensive racism or homophobia I wonder if people would have felt so inclined to discredit me?

OP posts:
TitaniasCloset · 13/04/2017 12:18

If anyone does set up a website I'm joining.

TitaniasCloset · 13/04/2017 12:19

I really don't understand the hostility and reluctance to believe so if someone could explain it for me that would be great. I just assumed that a couple of the posters were men.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 09:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 10:20

OP
Interestingly when I have challenged those posters directly about suggesting I am lying or exaggerating not one of them has come back to defend their positions. Not one has been able to back their statements up. Very telling!

I'm not sure which posts/posters you're referring to, but you did reply to my earlier post directly and I didn't reply. The reason for not doing so was that I'd added my tuppence worth to the conversation, you responded quite angrily that you didn't feel it had any merit, so there wasn't much more to say! I didn't/don't see any point in trying to hammer home my point or get into an argument.

TheFirstMrsDV · 14/04/2017 10:23

cheese they would. I have seen it a lot on MN.
People are reluctant to admit prejudice or harassment exists full stop.

Oddly though, there is always, always ALWAYS a handful of women who feel the need to announce that harassment happens to men and racism happens to white people.
As if that negates all the shit women and black people have to deal with.

MarklahMarklah · 14/04/2017 10:26

I remember catcalls and wolf-whistles as a young girl. I was scrawny, speccy, lank-haired and flat-chested. Nothing to do with appearance.
As I got a bit older, I avoided building sites, crossed the road to avoid men and generally used the 'safe' techniques that many have described here.
I have a feeling that many men think that women ought to be flattered by these 'attentions'.

When I was at school it was a thing for the boys to ping your bra strap. As I was so flat-chested, I didn't wear a bra for ages, so I got mocked and abused for that. I remember boys saying "I want to kiss you." If you said no, you were a "frigid bitch". If you said yes, you were a "fucking slag."
Also, when I was at school, there was a known flasher in our local park. Didn't stop our PE teachers making us go through there on our weekly cross-country run (in short skirts because girls were not allowed to wear shorts or tracksuits, although the teacher could). We were simply told "don't look, you'll encourage him."

I worry that my DD has all this to come. She's a sunny, gregarious, sociable sort. Sad

NinonDeLenclos · 14/04/2017 13:18

Last, I think that single fathers can sometimes feel quite self-conscious about being judged, which could add to the repeated eye contact between the guy in this situation and the OP

It was the eye contact between the guy and OP's daughter at issue.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 13:23

Ninon, there was no eye contact between OP's daughter and the man. OP's daughter was apparently oblivious.

NinonDeLenclos · 14/04/2017 13:31

[b]OP[/b]

I think many people find it hard to accept that ordinary men behave in ways that are sexually inappropriate and unacceptable, even actively illegal. I guess the reality is scary and painful.

It's easier to push that behaviour onto 'sex offenders' and other it. And to blame the victim.

NinonDeLenclos · 14/04/2017 13:33

You know what I was referring to Dulcimena.

This isn't a story about OP and the guy having repeated eye contact. It's about him repeatedly eyeing her daughter.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 13:57

Ninon, honestly no, I replied to your post as it was written. I only had that to go on. If you meant something else then I'm sorry but it wasn't clear.

Re the assessment of the situation, that's one way of looking at it, yes. However OP's very clearly described repeated eye contact between her and a stranger, who may or may not have been looking at her daughter with intent, resulting in him leaving the spot he'd found for his kids after 20 minutes. My point is and was that I'm not sure that I would recognise the difference between leering and idly looking, and it is extremely dangerous/unhealthy to assume that every time a male looks at a female it is sexually motivated. What a great way to get women back in their boxes that would be.

To clarify, I am not in any way disputing that some men are predatory and that that this is wholly unacceptable. I'm just not convinced that all men are lecherous or that this was the case in OP's situation.

IAmAmy · 14/04/2017 14:06

I'm just not convinced that all men are lecherous

No-one has said they are. Some certainly are. Enough that I and most girls and women have experienced this since our early teens. I certainly know when men are leering at me (even if they decide not to confirm this with a comment).

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 14:19

Enough that I and most girls and women have experienced this since our early teens

Yes, the very first thing I posted on this thread was that I had comments etc from 12 onwards too. I'm not disputing that it happens and that it's totally unacceptable. I agree with a lot of what's been posted generally, and a comment a little way back from Ninon particularly resonated about men catcalling because they thought we were older, then realising that they did it because they knew we weren't. But I still can't picture what leering looks like on a stranger, unless it's some tongue-out thigh-rubbing parody. I would actually love to know.

IAmAmy · 14/04/2017 14:26

Ok the last man who did what I'd call leering at me looked me up and down before smirking and fixing me with a stare having sat down opposite me on the Tube. If anyone responds telling me I imagined this I won't reply so don't bother.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 14:31

Ok, yes I get that completely. Thanks for explaining. But I can't see how that behaviour translates to the situation OP described. I'm really not deliberately being obtuse before anyone accuses me of it...

NinonDeLenclos · 14/04/2017 14:33

I was stretching language to make a point, I didn't think it would be taken so literally and that the point would be missed tbf.

No-one said that all men are lecherous, or that every time a man looks at a woman it's sexually motivated. The OP is talking about one occasion. How did you get from one to 'every'?

I find it very easy to differentiate between a leer and idle look, they're very different.

IAmAmy · 14/04/2017 14:34

You asked what leering looks like, not what it looked like to the OP. I can definitely imagine her experience.

NinonDeLenclos · 14/04/2017 14:50

It's difficult to describe in words but it's easy enough to recognise in the situation. In the context of being in a park, one or two glances would be normal. But repeated fixed, fascinated stare - not so much. The word 'leering' indicates a sexual interest, slightly unpleasant, that again is hard to describe, but easy to identify.

I remember being 15 and walking into a small shop in Italy with my mum. There was a guy in there who stared hard at me from the moment I walked in to point I left - I'm not exaggerating - I don't think he took his eyes off me. Looking at me lingeringly all over from head to toe. It was so marked that I noticed that other people noticed too - my mum did and looked uncomfortable, there was a woman standing with her bf who looked at the guy and at me, back at the guy, back to me and me gave a sympathy look. When I walked out the guy said 'Ciao bellina... belliiiiissssima'

I don't think I've thought about it since then, it was normal enough at the time. I mention because it was definitely leering.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 14:51

How I got from one to every - well anyone who suggested it may not have been untoward got shot down, so the consensus appears to be that there's no possibility that the man wasn't looking with intent.

Anyway, I'm going to back away from this thread, I only really posted in response to Titania's q. Yes I take things literally and no I don't think I can identify or imagine what leering looks like unless it's glaringly obvious. I have Aspergers.

Dulcimena · 14/04/2017 14:54

It's difficult to describe in words but it's easy enough to recognise in the situation

You see it's the exact opposite for me - I can articulate it in words but clearly can't detect it at the time. Oh well. Backing away...!

NinonDeLenclos · 14/04/2017 14:59

ASD spectrum explains everything, ok. I did wonder actually so I should have been more tactful.

so the consensus appears to be that there's no possibility that the man wasn't looking with intent

This particular man in this particular situation, not all men in all situations.