my 12 year old DD and unwanted male attention

[crispandcheesesandwichplease]

I've posted before about my DD getting unwanted attention form adult men. She's 12, she's developing but doesn't wear make up or skimpy clothes. She doesn't look particularly older than she is.

Today we're down by the riverside having a picnic. She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. We were sat reading and other people are around. A bloke, in his 40's I'd say, and 2 younger kids come and sit near us. The bloke immediately starts leering at my daughter. He sees me watching him look at her, I give him the Paddington bear hard stare. The kids he is with are messing about by the water and he's sorting them out with sun cream etc. He keeps looking over at my DD then at me, he knows I'm watching him.

After about 20 mins or so they gather their stuff to leave, he still keeps glancing at my daughter then at me. DD is oblivious to this, lost in her book. As they walk off I continue watching him, and he keeps turning round to look at my DD. Then, just before they disappear round the corner he turns to me and sticks his two fingers up at me!

Part of me was amused at his cheek but another part of me was furious. He was clearly letching at her and knew I'd clocked it, then he does that! What goes on in some men's head ffs???

This is so depressing to read.

Good in you, op for challenging the leery behaviour. My DM never did. Whenever I told her of feeling uncomfortable & embarrassed at being chatted up, leered at, wolf whistled, touched up etc she laughed it off with a comment 'oh, it's just what men are like'.

A 'man' who repeatedly hassled me was on the front page of a newspaper year's ago with the headline 'Paedophile Jailed'. Even when I pointed out to DM that he'd been a creepy fucker, she just said 'oh, yes, it' s XXX from down the road'.

This behaviour needs to be challenged every time, whether that's with words or a hard stare.

CheeseQueen, and other posters , you are in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you think your sons are not being leered at by predatory men. Wake up.

Haven't read the whole thread but my mum spent a whole summer marching up to men, in defence of my cousin, 13 at the time, who had been sent to stay with us and say very loudly
'She is 13 years old, eyes away NOW'.
My mum is a hero!!

At least he'd remembered to put sun cream on his kids.

It definitely happens to boys too. A couple of years ago I was waiting for a train at a sleepy surrey town. This guy kept staring at a teenage boy in uniform. It was so obviously creepy and the boy looked so uncomfortable. I moved closer and tried to catch the boys attention but he moved away. It was so obviously leering and threatening. There are some odd people about.

Of course it happens to boys too.

The difference is that society is FAR less likely to make excuses for that as "that's just the way men's brains are".

elkegel's post has me thinking. Growing up, as a teenage girl, I can remember this happening all the time, literally almost every time I was out. I am sure that blokes would have said that I was 'asking for it', because I was wide-eyed, used to make eye contact and smile politely, and was wearing a short skirt.

At some point in my teens, I also learned techniques to escape the attention. No-one ever taught me these, I just somehow picked them up - the avoiding eye contact, wearing headphones, crossing the road to avoid gangs of drunk blokes, changing what I wore etc. etc. etc.

Now here comes the central point: I don't think for a second the blokes doing this actually thought they were paedophiles. I'm not excusing their behaviour remotely saying that - they were behaving completely inappropriately. What I'm trying to make is a point about quantity. These are NOT a small group of sexually deviant blokes - this is mainstream. Fact is, there is a strong strand of male culture that thinks leering and eyeing up young girls is OK, because they are entitled to get off on the gaze in public space because they own that space, it is their domain. And a gaze isn't a touch, right? They haven't 'done anything wrong'. They're just normal 'red-blooded males'. Not all men are like that, of course. That goes without saying. But a huge number are. And it's bloody disgraceful.

I'm guessing most of us, as adults, adjust our behaviour in the ways I've described, most of the time when we are out in the urban environment. We are never taught to do so - it is something we have to learn. Maybe we need to challenge this kind of male behaviour and entitlement more. When I walk the city I live in, I'm forced to walk differently to my husband. I can't go to the same places in safety, I can't comport myself in the non-cautious, open way he can. And the older I get, the more I see these gender structures enshrined in things like this - in habits that are engrained so deep and reinforced every time we walk, as women, through public space.

(Anyone who, like me, is old enough to remember the echoing cat-calls that used to go up when we walked, as young girls, past building sites, will be able to vouch for what I'm saying about this being mainstream! Regulation has reduced the incidence of this, though I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen any more.)

Well said shovetheholly. As a teenager, I was pestered by men on a building site as I was going into work (Saturday job, aged 13). The boss threatened me with the sack if it didn't stop!!

I am guessing this must be your first/oldest daughter if you think it is unusual enough to post about!!

Good god, looking is a crime now!?!
why not just castrate all men and then we can carry on pretending that woman are perfect in every way. You could just lock her up so that you can take all the learning experiences away from your daughter. 🙄

Learning experiences?! How the fuck is this a learning experience?!

There are several "jokes" in mainstream US TV shows, eg Friends and the West Wing, about school uniforms being "sexy".

Urgh.

poochsmooch my mother too has always been aghast when "rude" to any men - her friends, neighbours or strangers that made me unconfortable. Apparently you're supposed to just ignore the remarks. Did I fuck.

Good God, looking is a crime now!?!
Not a crime, no, but when it's the inappropriate ogling of children by grown men who should be better, it's intimidating and immoral, end of.

What the fuck?? Looking is a crime now?

Actually looking is often a crime, viewing child abuse images is a crime. So yes sometimes looking is a crime, but you are seriously absolutely fine with grown men sexually leering at children? That's properly fucked up.

(Ps. Thanks to those who posted that it happens to boys too, I genuinely hadn't realised and will discuss this with my son as he gets older. I'm grateful, thank you)

Footle, my son was looked up and down approvingly by a woman and her daughter as he walked pass obliviously. I was a couple of metres behind and watched as they nudged and nodded. This woman was as old as myself and eyed him up . He is 14 yo though looks about 16 yo.

Carinae, so you think it's fine for grown men to leer at children, making them feel sexually threatened?

Inappropriate, yes. But it was clearly an environment that was safe and the mother was in control. Your comments clearly come with the belief of guilty until proven innocent. Bring in the minority report! 😳🔫
Oh and a learning experience is something that could be good or bad that you learn a lesson from...clearly!!

Why should the OP's DD have to learn from this experience carinae? Why can't the onus be on grown adults to not sexually objectify children?

It is girls who are routinely ogled, harassed, followed, commented on, wolf-whistled and even subject to whole social media accounts dedicated to taking photographs of them without consent. Whole Twitter accounts with thousands of followers, threads on certain well known forums dedicated to "schoolgirls" and "schoolgirl creepshots" (not that, as I've said, the ones dedicated to doing this to grown women are remotely acceptable, nor street harassment of women). This is endemic in society. Whilst it's abhorrent when anything of the kind happens to boys too, it simply isn't anything like the same scale or as commonplace. Having discussed this with my father, the older of my brothers and boys I'm good friends with, they were all shocked by the experiences of myself and all girls I know and have never encountered anything of the kind. Look at the accepted mainstream sexualisation of "schoolgirls" and girls' school uniform. Horrendous.

You could just lock her up so that you can take all the learning experiences away from your daughter.

Yes, I'm so grateful for the "learning experience" my first instance of harassment when walking to school one morning gave me, and the ones I still gain from helpful men who are giving me valuable life lessons as I go about my day.

Shove You are so right about learning to make adjustment in our adolescence. I learned to be very aloof, never respond to men asking me 'innocent' questions, ignoring their comments and catcalling whilst burning inside with embarrassment and shame and anger. Are there any men watching this thread? What do you have to say for yourself in answer to this evidence of our paedophilic culture, which is, as women are describing here, main stream?

I learnt to expect harassment - even now when it's pretty much stopped I'm still anxious out and about passing groups of men/boys.

I also learnt that what I saw or heard would be dismissed or that I would be blamed for adverse notice. ( At same time being told I should be able to sense danger using my instincts and way people behave around me).

I'm wondering what I was supposed to learn. It's not like I can live my never leaving my house.

I was aloof - and dressed very conservatively - was still happening in my 20's.

I think my being shy and lacking confidence may have come across and marked me out but I mainly blame gravitational attraction of my large chest.

You are so right about learning to make adjustment in our adolescence. I learned to be very aloof, never respond to men asking me 'innocent' questions, ignoring their comments and catcalling whilst burning inside with embarrassment and shame and anger

Yep, all of this. From about 11, unknown men became something to fear, rather than just lumped in with 'grown ups' AKA people that look after children.