my 12 year old DD and unwanted male attention

[crispandcheesesandwichplease]

I've posted before about my DD getting unwanted attention form adult men. She's 12, she's developing but doesn't wear make up or skimpy clothes. She doesn't look particularly older than she is.

Today we're down by the riverside having a picnic. She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. We were sat reading and other people are around. A bloke, in his 40's I'd say, and 2 younger kids come and sit near us. The bloke immediately starts leering at my daughter. He sees me watching him look at her, I give him the Paddington bear hard stare. The kids he is with are messing about by the water and he's sorting them out with sun cream etc. He keeps looking over at my DD then at me, he knows I'm watching him.

After about 20 mins or so they gather their stuff to leave, he still keeps glancing at my daughter then at me. DD is oblivious to this, lost in her book. As they walk off I continue watching him, and he keeps turning round to look at my DD. Then, just before they disappear round the corner he turns to me and sticks his two fingers up at me!

Part of me was amused at his cheek but another part of me was furious. He was clearly letching at her and knew I'd clocked it, then he does that! What goes on in some men's head ffs???

I had this when I was growing up, from the age of 12. I looked 12. There was no mistaking my age. I was often in school uniform. Those men were not thinking that I was older, they clearly liked that I was young.

I had men as old as my grandad shouting things from vans, whistling, tooting their horns and staring.

Then I grew up and had children and men would shout 'do you want another one?' Or a particularly memorable experience was standing on a tube platform with my children and a group of men chanting, 'does she take it up the arse' at me while my young son just squeezed my hand.

Then you get women who are flattered by the workmen wolf whistling or tooting . They are not paying you a compliment you fools!

Since I passed 30 and got chubby, I'm pretty much invisible now. Silver linings and all that.

There are good men in the world, I know that. But there are a lot of filthy horrible bastards too. What goes wrong with boys that they end up like this?

It's all very well shouting out that your daughter is a child, but they know that already. They like that. The fact that they are dressed 'like children' is what they like. We think we can protect them by not letting them wear 'grown up' clothes or make up, but it makes no difference. Men who like little girls don't want them to look more grown up.

I can remember the unwanted attention from men, driving past in cars, slowing down, calling things, beeping horns, from about 11 onwards, in town, asking for my number, commenting on my clothes and body etc. I developed late, I was clearly a child.

I found it very scary. I worry for my DD.

Giles, you've just reminded me of something. When I was 10, my mum and I were on an Eurocamp holiday in Italy. One evening the reps organised some party games for the kids, and as a penalty when you were "out", you had to kiss a rep of the opposite sex. When it was my turn, I really, really didn't want to. I said no. I pulled away when the rep grabbed me, and ran into the woods in the dark. I hid up a tree for ages till my mum found me - and gave me a good scolding for embarrassing her.

My mum wasn't a bad mum. She did - still does - regard herself as a feminist. And the reps, including the young man I was supposed to kiss, weren't bad people. The kisses were only pecks, and the boys were expected to kiss the female reps too - their "yeuchs" and "bleurghs" were considered funny though. I was thought a freak and an odd ball for not wanting to join in.

We do children such a disservice, even in seemingly "lighthearted" situations, when we do not respect their bodily autonomy, and right to consent - or not.

Sorry, that was a bit of a ramble and not terribly relevant. It's just I'd almost forgotten about it till just now.

"It's all very well shouting out that your daughter is a child, but they know that already. They like that. The fact that they are dressed 'like children' is what they like. We think we can protect them by not letting them wear 'grown up' clothes or make up, but it makes no difference. Men who like little girls don't want them to look more grown up. sad"

That's exactly it.
These men can be any age, not necessarily old or middle aged, but the one thing they all have in common imo is emotional/sexual immaturity and inadequacy. The only type of female they feel comfortable with is a v young, untouched,inexperienced one who (they think) would be in awe of them and not able to make unfavourable comparisons. Losers, basically

I think it's pretty relevant actually. Things like this being so expected and common and so blatant as it's in front of people it barely registers for what it actually is. And anything less than actively being pinned down and actually hurt is just people over reacting or seeing something that's not there or misunderstanding.

So sorry your mum was nore concerned about being embarrassed

I hadn't thought about that in years. I'm now sitting here feeling a bit shaken and thinking "but I said no. That should be been enough."

"Try using your mobile phone to take a photo of him, they do not like that."

Such a stupid thing to suggest! Op, don't put your dd in danger. There are loads of very violent, hot tempered individuals walking around these days. Do everything you can to avoid confrontation, Report to police when necessary

I remember being 8 years old and sleeping over with a friend of mine, we had a male babysitter.

Said babysitter suggested we play a fun "game" where we would play tag, and when he caught us he would pull our trousers down...

My friend and I never told our parents as we were so embarrassed by it.

I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell me that it was just friendly horseplay.

The amount of minimising on this thread is insane!

Why are people so desperate to believe this doesn't happen when the majority of rapes, assaults, child sexual exploitation involves older men and young girls/women?

when I think how we sexualise girls in school uniforms it makes me feel sick

From Britney Spears to St Trinians

it isn't kinky and fun it's perverse

IAmAmy just reading back through the thread and came across that article. Made the mistake of clicking on the #creepshot link. Truly disgusting.

Reading this thread is just getting me angrier and angrier. I remember becoming used to this as a teen. Thinking I could 'handle it'. Its just so depressing that this is what you have to learn to do as a child, and that it carries on because nobody gives a shit.

badabing36 it is truly horrendous. I made the mistake of clicking on it when I first read the article a while ago, spent far too long going through it horrified by how many accounts there are posting photographs, many "dedicated" to schoolgirls (not that those taking them of women are anything but abhorrent either) and so many British based. Given how many are doing this it's hardly surprising how commonplace leering at and harassment of young girls is. I won't click on it again as I found it too depressing when I did and still struggle to forget some of the comments I read and how so many men see girls and women. A friend also once noticed a man take a photograph of her but unfortunately he also seemed to get off on her noticing, knowing how powerless she as a young girl was and felt.

Unfortunately I know I can't handle it in the sense I'm not brave enough to challenge the men who do harass me, as I know how things can change and turn aggressive. I'm lucky I've never faced violence, but just for ignoring two men who harassed me some months ago I was branded a "miserable bitch" (thankfully they were shouting from across the street and I was nearly at my friend's house at the time).

Yes, at 17 I would have told them to fuck off, at 30 I'm not so sure. Luckily, this doesn't seem to happen to me much anymore.

I believe you, OP. I'm probably twice your age but can't even remember at what point in my childhood this sort of pressure started. I don't think things have been any different for my daughters, and my granddaughters are now entering the same zone.
My sons haven't been immune either.

I was first sexually assaulted at 8 or 9. The comments and beeping from cars really got going in last year of primary school. I didn't know what the hell they wanted at that age, but it was an extremely aggressive thing to experience. You can tell, even at that age, that it's not meant to be friendly and that they do mean you harm. That coming from men twice your height and much more than twice weight and strength is fucking terrifying.

When I did find out about sex and what they wanted, I nearly threw up on the spot and started thinking about suicide.

I'm surprised there is anyone who doubts these things happen to youngsters. It has little to do with biology and more to do with men's fucking egos. It's a power trip for them. Many do it purely because they enjoy frightening girls, without the intent of following it through into actual rape. Absolute scum.

For all of you who have shared your similar experiences and/or backed me up I'd like to say a big thank you.

As for the disbelievers who accused my of lying or exaggerating I'm still waiting for you to explain how you've drawn the conclusions about me that you have. Bruffin, TheRealPooTroll and BonnyScotland, I'm genuinely interested in why you drew the conclusions you did.

My DH is really worried about this stuff happening to our DDs, and I am ashamed to say I've been a bit didmissive thinking his experiences in child protection social work have skewed his view, but I think niw reading through this that maybe not. I am a bit horrified at how many people have sought to dismiss the OP's observation- ultimately no one but them were there, and there is no reason to disbelieve OP as far as I can tell. I do remember growing up as a young teenager and in my twenties being proud of being able to handle it. Only now do I realise I shouldn't have to. DH says that it does sometimes happen that he will admire an attractive figure, but as soon as he realises its a teenager or even a twenty something that feeling disappears altogether- I suspect that is normal- he also says it would only accidentally be a 'grown up'looking girl- if a child looks like a child its not attractive.
I will be teaching my girls the 'pants' rule and contrary to what I was rigorously taught- that if they feel that its wrong it probably is and they are allowed to make as much of a noise and a scene as possible to stop it. Whats the worst that can happen? They embarass some poor innocent bloke with a squint? Or maybe they trust their judgement and protect themselves from something much worse if I'm not there.

Been lurking on this thread, but delurking for this one.
"I do find it sad though that when I'm out with dh and my children at the park and we might watch a cute toddler playing nearby some people probably think my dh is a paedophile.
There's a whole world of difference between a "leering watching" gaze and an "aw, isn't that toddler cute" parental type gaze.

I'm mum to a 13 year old. Admittedly, he's a boy so I've not been subject to seeing any leering first hand.
I can totally see how it can happen though (NOT saying this is right,it's sick thinking of anyone in his class having this aimed at them) as some of them honestly look years older with all their make up, short skirts and the fact they've fully developed.
Any decent man though would feel repulsed though as soon as they knew the truth age wise. I mean, FFS, they are CHILDREN.

cheesequeen there is indeed a world of difference between the two and most of us can spot the difference 20 feet away.

Kerala I was fairly oblivious to this behaviour until I saw a guy giving my 9 year old the proper 'once over' whilst walking towards us in the high street. Unmistakable head to toe scan of her.

It's not right to stare or leer at anyone of any age to the extent it would make them uncomfortable or threatened though. Look, don't gorp or leer. And don't stare at breasts while you talk to someone. Basic stuff.

I'm also shocked at the disbelieving and victim blaming on here

I believe you, OP. Had your leerer been a decent man whose innocent look you had misinterpreted he would have a) realised he had made you uncomfortable and stopped and b) not flicked you the Vs as he was leaving. You caught him out, and you both knew it.

I started getting this attention at about 12 or 13, a tall but otherwise undeveloped and clearly childish 12 or 13. This was in a wee backwater town in rural Scotland, it's not just something that happens in metropolitan areas.

Why do people minimise it? I think because to truly face up to the scale of it is terrifying. It's embedded into our culture that this is just the way things are and the pace of that changing is glacial. Women are taught to minimise it (my own mother stressed that I should never be rude or make people uncomfortable, and that rule applied to street harrassers too), and men are told that they can't help it, and not to worry.

I believe the OP. it's just not something I've ever experienced.

Yes men are told they can't help its nature blah blah.

Really agree with your post pooch.