What if this happened at your kids school?

[Bambambini]

Would it bother you - if this happened at your kids school? A 15 yr old boy (ok Trans) who used to race on the boys team - now races on the girls team and is beating the other girls. I don't see why it won't happen here - if it already hasn't happened.

I have kids at high school and i'd find this hard tovsccrpt, especially if i had girls who liked sport.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/08/trans-middle-schooler-added-to-female-track-team/amp/

In short - nbody gives a shit if your child comes first, second or third in the 200 metres.
Ive had a number of students (boys and girls) who've competed abd aspired to compete nationally and semiprofessionally.
They would care. And I would also care as a parent ans sane human being. Theres a hormonal benefit to being biologically male in sport.
Fine lose out to a better athlete, but its no different to losing out to a biologically female athlete who has been doping with testosterone (and thats banned!)

On the actual trans thing. My days every week theres another thread set up. I have massive issues with womens space being infringed, i have a dislike of the trans activism lobby. But, i also feel trans people deserve support and respect through a difficult time. The sheer number of trans threads being started makes me feel a little like people start them knowing how it will all turn out.

What is this thing with trans? An epidemic of some sorts? Until very recently, they were very few, way too few to change laws in their favour.

I'd be very interested to know how many 'horrified' people on this thread have ever felt threatened by a transwoman in real life- as in, an actual flesh and blood human in your life directly affecting it in a negative way.

Or do you just read the articles, watch the news reports and come on threads like this to whip eachother up into a self-righteous frenzy about how trans people are supposedly attacking the very foundations of feminism? They're just people, who want to get on and live their lives same as anyone.

For those suggesting that there should be a separate trans category in school sports- seriously? There are a tiny number of trans people in real life, maybe one or two in an entire school- who would they play with? Are you actually suggesting that a child with a difficult and (as can be seen on this thread) highly stigmatised condition should be segregated from their peers because of it? That is despicable.

try harder is the most crackers thing I have read. It doesn't matter how hard you try if basic biology means your body type is putting you at an immediate disadvantage.

Girls shouldn't aim to win at sports. That's yucky

Do you mean everyone shouldn't aim to win at sports? Because that's kind of the point. Or do you really mean girls in which case that's desperately misogynystic.

My area of special interest is rugby. Full contact. There is a reason women and men don't play together post 11 - mainly safety.

Callous it's not about feeling threatened in a physical way. It's about women being expected to accept without question encroachment on their space (sport is part of a wider argument, I think)

Then being told they are transphobic when they say that it isn't ok.

I think there's a small minority of extremely vocal trans activists who are incredibly damaging to both women AND your average trans person who, as you say, just want to get on with it.

I don't feel at all threatened- what makes you say that? I think Miranda yardley is terrific.
Yes, to people getting on happily with their own lives. No, to pushing girls and women out of competitive sport.

I am late to the trans issue but lately wandered on to a thread thinking that I knew what trans was, ie gender dysphoria. I was beaten down with a stick though and told that 'trans' can mean 150 million things and is not purely an issue of gender dysphoria. it may be a case of identifying as a particular gender on a particular day.

Surely if we teach girls that they need to stand aside and let natal males play sport alongside them, the thin end of that particular wedge holds a rather worrying message about consent.

A man wants to do something. Just let him. Otherwise you're a bigot.

Chilling, really.

The Iranian women's football team has eight men on it. Do you think:

A Iranian women footballers are so kind and empathetic!! Nice. More women should stand aside in women's sport.

B gosh that sounds harsh for Iranian women footballers. How's that fair?

C borrriiiing

Trifle it's just a school sports day....

Did you even read the article? It's not a race at sports day. It's a place on the varsity track team that this boy has been encouraged to take from another girl. That's a big deal in high school. The camaraderie of the team, physical training with coaches, travelling for meets, a positive thing to include on university applications...

I was a (mediocre) track runner in high school, and I remember very clearly how hard I worked (many of us did) to make varsity team and how proud I was of myself when I finally did in my third year. I still have the 'letter' jacket thirty years later, it's such a fond and vivid memory.

Beyond the place on the team that he's taken from a girl in his own school, this boy will be taking an earned sporting achievement from every girl he "beats" in a race for the next four years. If he's the fastest one running those races, he'll take the achievement of being named State Champion, Regional Champion, National Champion, from four different girls each year he runs. He may well take scholarship opportunities away from them.

It isn't fair. Maybe it wouldn't have been important to you, and maybe you wouldn't care if it was your daughter who lost her place on the team, but it isn't just a plastic medal at sports day.

Football is highly popular among many Iranian women, despite religious rules that bar them from entering stadiums to watch matches between male teams

But women have to stand aside and let men play on the team...

This exemplifies the ridiculous hoops women are expected to jump through. Different ones in different countries.

That's why feminists are so up in arms about the trans issue - because now it's not just being excluded from things because of our sex, it's also being being forced to include men in the female bits.

For those suggesting that there should be a separate trans category in school sports- seriously? There are a tiny number of trans people in real life, maybe one or two in an entire school- who would they play with? Are you actually suggesting that a child with a difficult and (as can be seen on this thread) highly stigmatised condition should be segregated from their peers because of it? That is despicable.

So you are saying that trans are Special Needs (i.e. Disabled) that require extra measures of inclusion?
I thought that would be an offensive thing to suggest

Not read the whole thread, I don't personally think it is fair born males competing against females, but also not fair on trans child either to give up a hobby when going through a stressful time.
Given the increased awareness and increased numbers of trans children can separate category be set up? The trans child will also have the opportunity to be successful against a level field.

Trans may seem to be a small issue but in reality laws are in the process of being changed that would essentially erase sex as a protected characteristic and replace it with an internal sense of gender.

The two concepts are at odds so one has to take a back seat. It won't be gender ID that does.

You can't protect women and girls, work towards equality, fight oppression here and across the world when woman stops being about people in female bodies and is all about feminine feelings of pink woo.

professional competition isn't just a hobby

I didn't mean threatened in a physical sense- I meant threatened in the sense that people here seem to think they are, that women and girls and feminism itself are under threat.

Again, is this something you've experienced first hand? Or are you up in arms about a perceived threat as presented in the media?

Yes, I've seen women sports people pushed out in cricket, fell running, weightlifting, football - there may be more.

Why shouldn't I worry about my daughter's dreams of running professionally?
The rise of the idea that my dd should shut up and 'be kind' to any transpeople who wish to race against her - implying that it would be unkind to resist- does threaten me and her.

Cao absolutely.

Histiny I understand that there's a fourth possibility - in some party of the world and certainly religious communities being gay is punishable by death, so forced transitioning can be used to oppress gay people in that situation.

Callous the suggestion of additional events in sex-segregated sports for people who don't identify with their sex would be workable in large scale university / college events or wider-scale competition. In primary schools the physical advantages gained by post-pubertal boys haven't kicked in yet. In high school, it would probably make most sense to have a category for girls, and then an inclusive /open category for transgirls/ hormonally-treated transboys / boys, as that would be the group that has either a physical advantages, a hormonal advantage, or both, over the girls.

Oh FFS autocorrect!

*parts
*certain

Callous

I have not personally experienced a lot of the injustices levelled at women because they are women. It doesn't mean I shouldn't care about them.
I take your point about media presentation though - I think there has been fault on both sides there.

But perceived threat? There is a PM bill being considered that will stop "sex" being a protected characteristic if it gets through. Women will not come out of this well, if we can no longer legally exclude people who are not women from particular spaces.

Oh I know, inertia, but whatever the reason, presumably it's all pretty shit from the women footballers point of view.

Callous the law change outlined by Soapboxqueen could certainly affect all women. There are some protections which women have because of the physical characteristics of our sex. It's not about feelings.

Agreed Histiny.

The number for the Iranian women's team is preop males. We don't actually know how many of the were born with vaginas. Based on the 8 that they are required to tell us about due to their docks I am thinking it's probably quite a bit higher

Dicks! I have no knowledge about their docks