What if this happened at your kids school?

[Bambambini]

Would it bother you - if this happened at your kids school? A 15 yr old boy (ok Trans) who used to race on the boys team - now races on the girls team and is beating the other girls. I don't see why it won't happen here - if it already hasn't happened.

I have kids at high school and i'd find this hard tovsccrpt, especially if i had girls who liked sport.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/08/trans-middle-schooler-added-to-female-track-team/amp/

Megatherium what's your opinion on the Barbican toilets? The decided to relabel two toilets, previously Gents and Ladies, to 'Gender Neutral Toilets With Urinals' and 'Gender Neutral Toilets With Cubicles'. Caused a bit of chaos apparently, with lots of men choosing to queue for the cubicles, so enlarging an already large queue. No women were reported to have used the urinals (although I'm guessing there must have been a couple of cubicles in there anyway). So men had the choice of both toilets, and exercised that choice. Women theoretically had the choice of two toilets, but since most of them would have been urinals, chose not to. Being nice I suppose, not wanting to make the men at the urinals uncomfortable as they strolled past to get to the cubicles I'm assuming there were.

So women's access to toilets was reduced (by the enlargement of the queue by men) and men's access to toilets was increased.

What's your opinion of how the Barbican handled toilet facilities?

Surely there is space for everyone to be protected and valued; we do not have to take it from each other, nor be bundled all together.

We must expect the same adjustment and tolerance from men as from women and support others to gain their rights and protections, but gain them without harming anyone else.

Dominating others is so male.

Being ridulously PC or whatever the Barbican is up to is so uselessly, inefficiently, frustratingly, and stupidly modern.

This debate is looking like another chance for some to benefit from the old divide and conquer routine.

grenhild and rail great posts.

YoullNeverWeeAlone maybe they know they are women like anorexics know they are fat.

I think most/many/all genuine transsexual women know they are born male, desire to change their body with surgery and drugs (although many cannot afford to, e.g. poorer trans women in USA, etc, especially trans women of colour who are more likely to be victims of crime than whealthy white trans women).

I also think that many are aware of the fact they were not born in the sex they desired to be born in.

Or that is how they come across in information I have seen.

There is a brilliant documentary about trans teens I'm the USA, and there is a transsexual woman from the Philippines in it, they are all students, she is called Raci.

Raci looks very feminine and yet is worried about a romantic scene with a male drama partner, Scott. Raci is not worried Scott might know she is male, she is worried he will find up and then be upset. It's very touching and all is well.

But to me it shows a level of concern not found in the 'I'm a woman, always been a woman' trans gender woman I've seen on the Internet.

Fairy should we really care about abuses of power only if they affect our family directly?

There are no trans people or gay people in my wider family ( to my knowledge) but I have expressed concern for trans people and lesbian and gay people, spoken up about these things, signed petitions whatever.

Unfortunately, now, trans rights are coming at an unfair cost to women, but I still want safety for trans people AND fairness for women and rights for gay people too of course. I really don't think we should only care of these things affect us directly.

I know you did not say that directly.

If anyone I'd interested the documentary I mentioned is available on line. The episode I refered to can be found by googling
Transgeneration, Episode One, Part Five

There are an increasing number of places where ladies toilets are being replaced with gender neutral toilets and urinals.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4385984/Fury-Barbican-Centre-ditches-male-female-toilets.html
(yes it's a DM link but they've covered it in more detail)

Where they are individual cubicles with floor to ceiling doors accessed directly from the public area, I don't have as huge an objection (though I don't like them as too many men piss on the seat), but I really object to standard toilets with multiple cubicles off the washbasin area.

"Any transwoman wanting to compete in the women's sports anyways is just being selfish. I just can't see how they could stand on a podium collecting a medal they don't deserve and be happy about that unless they are selfish and/or narcissistic."
I expect it is the same way an athlete who has drugged their body to buggery whilst competing against 'clean' athletes happily collects their medal. For them, winning is everything. Absolutely everything. And if you are mediocre man whose ability would win as a woman - is it any harder to take the hormones than to take the steroids etc.? They're willing to fuck their bodies up with doping, would they regard female hormones as any worse? I think they could well see them as equivalent, with an increased likelihood of winning against the females compared to against other males who are also doping. Lance Armstrong missed a trick there.

And of course the other angle is that it doesn't necessarily have to be an individual's decision. Plenty of countries will create transwomen athletes if it allows them in win international and world events. Countries which already risk the health of their athletes will force them to transition for the sake of their nation. The most well known example is the Iranian women's soccer team, which includes 8 men.

Samoa are protesting the recent weightlifting competition.

"I talked to other female athletes that were they - they're actually saying to me what's the point of training and competing, we will not be able to beat these lifters - transgenders - because they're obviously much stronger, much bigger." a quote from a coach.

So women who already have it stacked against them as their sport is taken less seriously will just give up.

Glad to hear it, Dame. The article you linked to doesn't pull its punches. Good for them. Let's see whether their protests get them anywhere.

I expect it is the same way an athlete who has drugged their body to buggery whilst competing against 'clean' athletes happily collects their medal. For them, winning is everything. Absolutely everything. And if you are mediocre man whose ability would win as a woman - is it any harder to take the hormones than to take the steroids etc.?

This is what many people are beginning to suspect.

So then we're not even talking about transgender people here, but rather 'sports' men willing to cheat at any cost to win, who are using transgenderism to advance their individual cause. And drag it thorough the mud.

This should be as much a cause for concern to transgender people as it is for feminists.

Very pleased to hear Samoa are challenging this. Iuniarra Sipaia was the rightful winner of that medal, not Hubbard.

I don't suppose we'll ever know who the girl was whose place on the team was taken by Yearwood.

The one thing I have really learned from all this is how little men are prepared to do when it's only women who are affected. It's like treating women unfairly is woven into the fabric of our society.

Competitive sports is about bodies, not feelings.

Competitive sports is segregated by sex for obvious reasons.

Either you feel the body you were dealt when you were born is 'wrong', or you don't.

If you're born into the wrong body for your feelings, then it's unfortunately also the wrong body for competitive sports.

I am pleased Samoa are appealing - surely the international federations are going to be able to see how absurd this is and that it is totally unfair on female competitors.

It's like treating women unfairly is woven into the fabric of our society.

That's exactly what it is, Dame. That's the legacy of thousands of years of male supremacy. This is what is so hard to challenge because it's been like this for so long it's just what people think is "normal" - so many women who see themselves as feminists can't even see that there's this monumental injustice, monumental bias against women as a group that pervades our culture (every culture) at the deepest, most unconscious level. At a level that is going to take way, way more than a few decades of feminism to unpick.

Great analogy. It really is in the woof and the warp.

Also very pleased that Samoa are taking this up.

This is what we need, sportswomen and those who represent them actually saying what is really going on here. A bit of reality amongst all the bullshit.

There is zero chance that this - as an issue - is going to be swept under the carpet.

Women (and many men) in men's bodies competing in women's sports is not something people are going to roll over and accept.

If anything, more and more people are going to start caring enough to cause enough of a fuss that it won't be acceptable. Hopefully soon.

Good on Samoa (slightly embarrassed that the person who was given (they didn't win it) the gold medal is a NZer).

I hope so, people seem to be rolling over and accepting it so far. The backlash when you speak out is horrifying. I am active on twitter and discuss this in a calm sensible manner, as do other so called terfs, most of whom are just mums. Then along comes someone who threatens you with violence, just for talking. I have only seen that, very male, aggression come from transwomen.

You get a lot of cool girl "transwomen are women" types but I find they debate, or say something then leave the conversation. I have even found a lot of cool girls are quite easy to debate with and a few change their mind or at least leave the conversation with some facts to think about.

We all need to be a lot braver if we want to protect hard one rights.

It's just so clearly wrong (imo) that I don't understand how we even got to this position. If you read any articles on Transwomen competing (especially winning) in female sports - the comments are overwhelmingly scathing, incredulous, angry, amused at the absurdity of the situation. Then you have a few supporters - often other transwomen who debate hotly on their rights and call those who think this is wrong - bigots, Trump supporters, flat earth believers.

I've slso seen a few Transwomen who disagree, who think it's unfair to women and girls.

And another case - also hoping to make the US women's Olympic squad for 2020.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/10/usa-volleyball-stands-up-for-trans-player-despite-push-back/comments/#disqus_thread

Pink news is just pure misogyny now isn't it.

"Thompson, 32, had been playing in the men’s division of USA Volleyball.
But after applying to USAV to play in the women’s league, Thompson in January got the news that she will be allowed to do so."

No! This is just all kinds of wrong!
You cannot train for years as a man, then take hormones for a year to reduce your testosterone levels and compete as a woman!
She should now be ruled out of regulated sport because there is no category that she fits in.

"No! This is just all kinds of wrong!
You cannot train for years as a man, then take hormones for a year to reduce your testosterone levels and compete as a woman!
She should now be ruled out of regulated sport because there is no category that she fits in."

Well you'd think so, i imagine nearly everyone sees this and agrees - so how did we come to this? I really just don't understand - it's like the governmrnt one day deciding the sky is now green and will be referred to as green from now on and everyone must say it's green.