What if this happened at your kids school?

[Bambambini]

Would it bother you - if this happened at your kids school? A 15 yr old boy (ok Trans) who used to race on the boys team - now races on the girls team and is beating the other girls. I don't see why it won't happen here - if it already hasn't happened.

I have kids at high school and i'd find this hard tovsccrpt, especially if i had girls who liked sport.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/08/trans-middle-schooler-added-to-female-track-team/amp/

Wonder what happens with trans folk who are non binary or gender fluid. Non binary has now been recognised legally on at least 1 state in the US. In a year at my kids school I think there were up to 5 Trans kids in one year (don't know if it was a bi of social contagion). 2 that I know of are still living as the opposite sex several years later. I can't see how this won't affect women's/girls sports.

That the number of transwomen is quite a bit higher phone

For those suggesting that there should be a separate trans category in school sports- seriously? There are a tiny number of trans people in real life, maybe one or two in an entire school- who would they play with? Are you actually suggesting that a child with a difficult and (as can be seen on this thread) highly stigmatised condition should be segregated from their peers because of it? That is despicable.

A trans category for school sport does seem a bit silly yes as chances are there probably won't be enough people for them to compete against (although with the definition of the word transgender expanding to simply mean anyone who doesn't conform to gender norms that may change soon) but why does that mean that the transgirl has to compete with the girls? She is biologically male so wouldn't it make more sense for her to compete with the boys? What's the point of sex segregated sports in the first place if any man/boy can just say they identify as a girl/woman and be then be allowed to compete with the girls?

Let's reclassify the men's as the open category that everyone (including females) can compete in and then a female category. For actual females with a T limit that isn't 4 times the upper limit average.

I think there's a lot of misconception about what is meant by transgender now. A trans individual won't necessarily be suffering from gender dysphoria any more. These days transgender simply means anyone who doesn't conform to gender norms. So a boy who likes playing with dolls and wearing dresses would be labelled a trans girl now. It doesn't matter if he is perfectly happy with his body and has no desire to be a girl; he likes playing with dolls and wearing dresses so that apparently makes him transgender now.

And I used the word now far too much in that post .

soapbox it feels rather as if "female" has been reclassified as an open category...

smile Well that would be because we aren't really people #sarcasm

In all honesty that is what's happening which is why making a conscious effort to make male the open category could help.

Plus life just isn't fair, hence why that child was born in the wrong body.

As a transwomen, I object to the idea that I was born in the wrong body. I may feel that I was born in the wrong body and I may feel that there is something wrong with it but was I literally physically born into the wrong body? Nope.

I think gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and should be treated as such. Unfortunately it's now becoming increasingly difficult to find therapists and medical professions who will treat it as such because they fear being labelled a bigot.

It's also worth pointing out that the majority of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it and become comfortable with their body and the sex they were born as. Of course that doesn't fit with the whole born in the wrong body narrative so I'm probably bigoted myself for pointing that out.

Dd recently came home from a school sports match highly indignant. The other school had a 'transgender' child playing. This child was obviously a boy in girls clothing and hairstyle. This child was not transgender, imo this 'label' should only fairly describe those post op, in this case they were physically and hormonally a boy. They were bigger, stronger and faster than the girls as would be expected of a boy at that age.

The girls got no say, no one felt they could say anything without sounding transphobic.

It is documented that at teen ages there is a huge drop off of girls in sports. This will not help matters.

The number of people happy to screw over women and girls is sickening. Women are not asking to include MTT in their sports. Its them demanding access. Why are people enabling it?
Young female competitors are going to be put off even trying.

There is no clear rule around this.

But a male to female transition will mean the person will still have male hormone being produced.

Does anyone remember years ago the controversy surrounding Caster Semenya when sex verification was ordered because they suspected she could have male sex hormone?

So clearly at a certain level of athletics it matters to the organisers and rule setters.

it's just a school sports day....

In the US, making the varsity team can literally mean the difference between being able to attend university and not being able to attend university.

I think team sports are arguably slightly different to track and field individual events. I do have a lot of sympathy with teenagers who are transgender and who would prefer to train with either girls or boys (depending on their gender identity). In those circumstances, I think there is an argument that they should also be permitted to be on the school team that reflects their gender identity. I am thinking, for example, of netball (which boys don't tend to play) or football (which a lot of schools still only teach boys).

wow its scarey being a woman these days.
we are just being sidelined and renames ( f off cis)
girls/women should not have to make way for men/trans
its another case of women being beaten down.

So what if it is just a school sports day, it still matters to the girl who comes second. I care about the girls out there who come second when they should come first. Even if it is a plastic medal and a sports day, it matters to that girl so it matters to me.

So basically, any male who is maybe too weak to compete with other boys, but still can run faster than girl, has to identify as a girl, and is automatically entitled to their prizes, records, scholarships, etc.

Women are still not allowed to serve in combat. But here comes a dude who likes frocks and make-up, and claims to be the first woman to serve.

Wrong body my arse

Yep, no more right to meet without males present, no more privacy, no longer able to talk about our bodies, no hope of ending the oppression women have faced for ever because of their biology.

But, some other people will feel good about themselves so yeh, that's okay then.

I don't think that letting transpeople choose their gender is 'kind' actually. In fact, I think it's quite patronizing and cruel.

By playing along with their fantasy, you're adding to their dangerous delusions. Delusions which will never become reality, no matter how much surgery they have.

I think it would be much kinder to make them face the body they were born with and help them come to terms with it.

And let them express themselves any way they want, now that would be progress.

Women are still not allowed to serve in combat. But here comes a dude who likes frocks and make-up, and claims to be the first woman to serve

That actually enraged me more than it probably should have. Some guy parading on the front pages claiming to be the first woman on the front line. being applauded for it and some of the stories even mentioned that he only 'came out' as he was caught dressing in womens clothes by another soldier. So...he is a crossdresser claiming the glory of being the first woman on the frontline and everyone eats it up and anyone who says 'thats a dude..he completed training as a dude and this is nothing special' is bigoted. Now the actual first woman will be the second...or maybe 50th by the time the female training catches up.

But, some other people will feel good about themselves so yeh, that's okay then.

Male people. That's important.

Parents are not teaching their daughters to put other girls first. Far from it. They teach their daughters to put males first, boys, and men, and males who claim to be girls or women.

Those daughters who have been taught to "put others first", they will not put other females first. If a girl who didn't get first place because a boy identified his way into the girls' competition, they will put the boy first, they will not put the girl first.

I have seen this happen again and again. Those girls who were groomed to submit to men, they never put other women first. That a male's feelings could be hurt because a woman doesn't want to share showers, changing rooms, or bedrooms with him, is more important to them than other women, even rape survivors, not wanting a male in their private spaces.

Callous, I know two transwomen. The first has sex dysphoria. He has adopted a playful name - think Alice Wonderland or May Day - and has had SRS which, according to friends who knew him at the time, over 10 years ago, was very traumatic and took ages to get over. He dresses in a goth, medieval princess way, though no makeup, a wise decision as he will never look remotely female. He is very unassuming and when we're out at a gig or something he is welcome in the ladies, though he makes no demands. He is fine with male pronouns. His surgery and presentation have eased his dysphoria. There's nothing creepy or fetishistic about him.

The second is a very different story. He married a Catholic virgin and had three kids before suddenly announcing that he was a woman and immediately moving out. It was it terrible shock to them all.

Unfortunately he was too busy with his new identity and painting his nails to pay anything for his DC or bother seeing them. He needed his money for clothes etc. His wife was shattered. She told me their sex life had never been good but that he always blamed her: her inexperience, the inhibitions of her Catholic upbringing. Now she knew the truth.

This transwoman will also never pass, at least from behind and if you notice his huge hands. He's the shape of an Oscar statue, very broad shoulders, very narrow hips. He wears a lot of skilfully applied makeup and displays a lot of seriously overdone stereotypical feminine gestures.

A lot of family pressure and, after a couple of years, he started paying child support and seeing his DC. The DC adjusted well and, to give him credit, he made a big effort to put things right. I use male pronouns because I've known him since we were kids and he's the father of three. He has two older sisters who were the most beautiful girls I've ever seen. I wonder if growing up in the shadow of such stunning women lies behind his need to transition. As far as anyone knows he hasn't had a partner since he transitioned, even briefly.

I don't like this man. He's a selfish bastard. I find the lies he told to his poor wife abhorrent. I think he deliberately exploited her innocence. She had little confidence in the first place and I strongly suspect her naivety was one of the reasons he married her. He always seems to be acting the part of a woman rather than being true to himself. I don't think he's authentic and he gives me the creeps.

I don't think that letting transpeople choose their gender is 'kind' actually. In fact, I think it's quite patronizing and cruel. That's articulated something I've often thought.

@tumbletrans

As a transwomen, I object to the idea that I was born in the wrong body.

So, how do you describe your 'transness' then?