What if this happened at your kids school?

[Bambambini]

Would it bother you - if this happened at your kids school? A 15 yr old boy (ok Trans) who used to race on the boys team - now races on the girls team and is beating the other girls. I don't see why it won't happen here - if it already hasn't happened.

I have kids at high school and i'd find this hard tovsccrpt, especially if i had girls who liked sport.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/08/trans-middle-schooler-added-to-female-track-team/amp/

Rhythmic gymnastics. It's the flexibility. However hard they try, men are never, ever going to be that crazily flexible, their physiology is against them. The ballet foundation, the apparatus etc, there's no reason men couldn't do that (and they do in Japan). But Japanese male rhythmic looks very, very different because it lacks the flexibility (and they also do 'floor routines,' ie no apparatus to juggle). Not for lack of trying, not biologically possible. So instead of being overshadowed by the women, there just is no male rhythmic beyond Japan and some parts of European countries like Portugal, very very rarely. Funny, that.

would it matter had she not been brought up to believe she's an oppressed underclass?

Dammit. Must stop bringing the kids up to believe women are an oppressed underclass.

Would you feel equally privileged to watch able bodied competitor beat disabled competitors in disabled competitions? Would anyone protesting it lack 'empathy'?

Women already have to deal with the fact that the vast majority of sports were invented to explicitly show what the male body could do

Why is this bullshit?

Would you feel equally privileged to watch able bodied competitor beat disabled competitors in disabled competitions? Would anyone protesting it lack 'empathy'?

Depends if they feel disabled obviously...

If they feel disabled...and i am not being funny about this as some people absolutely do...then thats ok

According to some people (not me)

Hi Animals - I got called away to build a trampoline exciting life I lead

Most trans people I know accept that they are biologically male at a genetic level, however they 'feel' female and this has caused them such distress that they alter their body to match. None of them have been able to define this feeling or what being female feels like, which I find quite frustrating. If I'm honest most of their reasons are social conditioning e.g. They prefer 'female' things.

However, they don't pretend that they are women, just that passing as a women makes them feel better.

Personally I think it's a psychological condition and I'm very uncomfortable with the amount of surgery and hormones that are used.

The reason I get annoyed about sports etc is that I think this is the thin edge of the wedge. Yes trans people have a tough time, and I'm very accepting of them, but women are disadvantaged by our biology and I resent giving up any ground we've gained.

Does it make any difference to your DD is she loses to a man or trans or woman?

In a straight up race?

No she would probably expect to lose to the man and trans person

In a girls race?

No she would expect to have a good chance

Yes trans people have a tough time, and I'm very accepting of them, but women are disadvantaged by our biology and I resent giving up any ground we've gained.

This

Why are the people who think this is fine, still referring to it as / comparing it to a race at sports day?

It's not a race at sports day. It's a place on the girls' varsity track team for the next four years. There are limited places on the team. A girl will have lost out on the chance to compete at this level, and all that goes with it, including potentially college admissions and scholarships.

It's not fucking sports day. And if the only way you can argue that it's fine, is to minimise the actual cost to the girl at whose expense this boy is competing (i.e., let's pretend it's a plastic medal at a one-off event event), that in itself should tell you that you should think a little more critically about the implications here.

I think we need to recognise that the reason we have classifications in sport by sex, disability, age (for children), weight/size (boxing etc) is for real logistical reasons. Not for shits and giggles.

All things being equal, Is it OK for a 17 year old to play in the under 11s football?

Is it OK for an able bodied runner to compete against para-athletes?

Is it OK for a heavyweight boxer to compete in a feather weight match?

If you honestly believe these things are OK, who do you think will be winning more often?

You may not think it is important. That there are bigger things to worry about but the bigger things are often made up of many smaller things.

"If you took feminism to its ultimate conclusion men and women would compete together anyway."
You know, the anti-feminists have been very successful in redefining feminism into something it's not. This statement could only have been made if you believed that feminism claimed there was no difference between a man and a woman. That is not the feminism I know. But then I was brought up during the 1970's, the Women's Lib, burn your bras, phase - what I believe is now known as 'Second Wave Feminism' (First Wave being the Suffragettes). So for me, feminism acknowledges the physical differences, points out that these physical differences do not extend to intellect, and insists that those with the physical advantages do not use them against those without. And that the institutional sexism caused by centuries of those with the physical advantages doing just that be demolished.

Third Wave Feminism has thrown all that away. Fuck knows how or why.

soapboxqueen

You were doing so well except for the fact that many para-athletes smash regular athletes' records.

Chrysanthemum Well, as long as they can't define it, we can't be expected to either

rufus

No she would expect to have a good chance

So maybe come second?

Feminism recognises biological reality, they just want people to stop treating women as second class citizens because of their biology is all.

animals I've not seen any able bodied athletes competing in the paralympics. Happy to be wrong.

Chrysanthemum, soap and Dame great posts.

animals why should a female come second to a male in a race which is sex segregated?

However the male feels, sports are segregated by sex (biology) not gender (social construct).

If so many boys did sport as girls that it meant girls didn't need to then my daughter would have been delighted. Sport was her worst nightmare and as she was badly co-ordinated and pretty useless she got teased mercilessly about it. I've never understood why teachers seemed to think it was OK for other kids to scream abuse at someone who was no good at sport when they wouldn't stand for it in a maths lesson.

Only one person can win a race so most girls have to accept that someone faster than them will win.

I bet against you that people are more likely to respond if you can write in English. No offence if English is your second language. I'm mono-lingual so I'm impressed that you did so well

Yes, actually, English is my second language.

And I do take offence. Because you could very well have understood what I wrote if you had taken the time to think about it.

... there's a lot of things I am quite sure you would understand if you dared think about them.

However the male feels, sports are segregated by sex (biology) not gender (social construct).

This.

Only one person can win a race so most girls have to accept that someone faster than them will win.

Yes. A girl faster than them.

If there are no rules, well, I can also take a horse to a 100 metre race for human males, be faster than them, and then say they had to have expected that there would be someone faster and I should get the gold medal and prize money.

They would not be amused.

Actually, they are already not amused if an actual human male who takes steroid is the one who is faster than them.

Rules. They exist for a reason.

granny girls (half the world population) only have to accept someone faster than them will won a race of they are not allowed to compete against each other.

Well said Vestal.

Why should girls and women be denied the right to compete against each other?

Who does that benefit?

Dd recently came home from a school sports match highly indignant. The other school had a 'transgender' child playing. This child was obviously a boy in girls clothing and hairstyle. This child was not transgender, imo this 'label' should only fairly describe those post op, in this case they were physically and hormonally a boy

How did they know it was a boy in girls clothing? Did they check his genitals or his DNA?

The question was how would you feel if this happened at your child's school. Well my daughter has left school but I wouldn't be bothered because she wouldn't have been bothered. People might not like that, people might think we have no right to an opinion but if that is the case why ask?

Yeah animal

2nd to a man

In a womans race

And before anyone hard of thinking has a go at me

Animal brought up the man bit...neither one of us is referring to trans people

Trans boy taking steroids and testosterone shouldnt be running against non drug takers

Trans girl who has gone through puberty with increased lung capacity, muscle mass and different pelvis shape shouldnt be running against girls

I am truly sorry for those with gender dysmorphia but i agree with a poster above women have only been able to run in the olympics since 1928 ...hard fought for (Christ alone knows why) and it is disappearing before our eyes

The irony here is, women had been seen as inferior for ages because they're too emotional, feeling too much...

But when it comes to males, turns out their feelings are above any possible reasoning.

i agree with a poster above women have only been able to run in the olympics since 1928 ...hard fought for (Christ alone knows why) and it is disappearing before our eyes

Yes, and only allowed to run marathons since the 70's. Which is weird as women are apparently 3 times more likely to finish an ultramarathon than a man: womensrunninguk.co.uk/inspiration/why-women-are-better-at-ultrarunning/