What if this happened at your kids school?

[Bambambini]

Would it bother you - if this happened at your kids school? A 15 yr old boy (ok Trans) who used to race on the boys team - now races on the girls team and is beating the other girls. I don't see why it won't happen here - if it already hasn't happened.

I have kids at high school and i'd find this hard tovsccrpt, especially if i had girls who liked sport.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/08/trans-middle-schooler-added-to-female-track-team/amp/

There was a woman actually attacked by a marathon official for running in the Boston Marathon back in the seventies I believe. Her boyfriend and other male friends in the race had to protect her so she could finish.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathrine_Switzer

Only one person can win a race so most girls have to accept that someone faster than them will win

We dealt with this at length on another thread you purported not to be interested in.

How can you STILL not understand that someone who is faster by biological advantage has an unfair advantage?

So quick to hand over our daughters rights.

Are they? Running or swimming quickly? Jumping highly?

Sorry, I feel the need to call bullshit where I see it although I'd love you to tell me why I'm wrong...

The fastest man is significantly faster than the fastest women both on land and in water. High jump and long jump are the same. Tell me which woman is better than the best man in her sport?

Granny you crack me up, that's a great shtick you've got going there.! 😂

This new age of Trans is worrying. I read an article that the next thing following this will be the idea of being transracial (Rachel Dolezal) and then trans-age adults who argue that it is perfectly ok to have relationships with children as they are misunderstood. The worrying think is how so many women are willing to give up their rights as well as the rights of their daughters in order to appear progressive and politically correct. Also worrying how people who challenge or refuse to be swept along with this agenda are viciously attacked.

Trans-racial along with transabled are rubbished by the trans activists as not really a thing. I personally think they are all linked but obviously they are afraid that they discredit their own personal views.

Paedophiles have been claiming for a long time that 'intergenerational relationships' aren't really a problem. It's societies views that cause problems.

Where does transracial stop though? Transnational? Imagine the chaos if everyone living in a war zone/famine affected area/poverty etc claimed to be trans American/British whatever developing country nationality. Should we grant them all citizenship? With the best will in the world you can't displace the population of multiple countries into one or two, but if they were trans-National we'd have to, right? I'm sure most people would laugh that idea down as ridiculous. Yet how is it any different from a man who wants to be a woman and use the women's facilities?

I have read a few of threads on this topic but not posted on it before so will do now...

1. Why isnt the male-to-female person expected to show empathy for the girls they are beating and therefore expected to feel bad if use their biological advantage to the disadvantage of (ALL) biological girls?

That would be the most appropriate use of empathy in this situation I think. The same as for with an older child who is encouraged to slow down to allow the younger children a chance to win. That is nobleness and kindness and empathy. Not rubbing their cake-and-eat-it advantage in other girls/women's faces.

Personally, I would feel it a hollow victory if i won under such circumstances and could never feel happy with it.

2. If a high degree of emapthy is a supposedy female trait as some people say, then wouldn't "feeling female" mean that the transwoman SHOULD (must) feel empathy for this situation and recognise his/her unfair biological advantage.

And 3) logically I would have thought that the transwoman would not want that advantage that comes from being biologically male - surely a stronger/faster body than is usual in biological females would be something that would identify and signify them as being biologically male; to themselves and all others. By competing in female sport and winning by such degrees as some transathletes do, surely they are just distingushing and distancing themsleves further from biological women and therefore from their goal of being a woman.

I find the whole thing illogical.

I also think if anything qualifies as "feeling female" it is knowing how it feels to lose out to male advantage; sexist remarks on our (lack of) ability to drive cars, park cars, our physical weakness eg runnig like a girl, or feeling physically/ sexually intimidated on occasion or often. Other than periods and hormones etc surely all bilogical women have experienced one of these things at least once. Why would a transwoman want to perptuate male advantage if they genuinely "feel female". Except of course by being one of the apologists or those who collude with it.

I think that we should all be empathetic humans. Having concern for fairness and justice, and not just selfishly exerting our own abilties/ strengths/ dominance, is what makes the world a more compassionate and safer place.

This topic does matter and discussing it does not automatically make anyone transphobic. I empathise rgeatly with anyone suffering any sort of mental or physical discomfort, but I can;t help think of the old phrase "two wrongs don't make a right."

The whole thing makes me very sad and we should keep debating it

I would like to see trans"women" compete for the other side of feminine glamour lower pay, horse share of household chores, having to take care of elderly family members, and also give up such 'unfeminine' activities as weightliting or MMA. ballet classes and table setting lessons all the way!

I think the problem is that as much as the trans movement is about wanting to be a girl, it goes deeper. For some, not all. But for some, it's about being a girl AND being a bit special. And I don't think you can appreciate the wider issues like sport without accepting that.

grenhild - your post is spot on.

Great post, Grenhild. The high levels of male entitlement displayed by some transwomen make their true gender, their masculinity, unmistakable. If they were the women they claim to be, empathy would stop them doing so many of the things they're happy to do. A woman wouldn't use her male body to cheat - indeed, I find it hard to understand how anyone with gender dysphoria would be happy to employ her male body against women. Surely it would highlight the difference in her sex to an unbearable degree? Unless, of course, she doesn't feel dysphoria and doesn't give a shit about ripping off women.

I'd be very interested to know how many 'horrified' people on this thread have ever felt threatened by a transwoman in real life- as in, an actual flesh and blood human in your life directly affecting it in a negative way
Spectacularly missing the point!
If men can declare themselves to be a woman and have the right to access female only spaces and women have no right to complain, can you not see that that could so easily be abused by any man who wants access to women in vulnerable positions?

No need for a different trans category in sport. Transwomen are biologically men so they can compete in the men's category. There is absolutely no justification for allowing them to compete against women.

I meant threatened in the sense that people here seem to think they are, that women and girls and feminism itself are under threat.
When the only toilets available are "Men" and "Gender Neutral", I'd say that women, girls and feminism are under threat.

Excellent points Grenhild

And 3) logically I would have thought that the transwoman would not want that advantage that comes from being biologically male - surely a stronger/faster body than is usual in biological females would be something that would identify and signify them as being biologically male; to themselves and all others.

Indeed.

And I am by now pretty sure that 90% of the males who invade women's spaces never had genuine dysphoria.

Every now and then, a transwoman with actual dysphoria will speak up and say that she actually doesn't want to compete against women, or invade any spaces where women are naked, etc.

But then the transwacktivists threaten and intimidate, and fool well-meaning women into believing that genuinely dysphoric males are the ones who want our sports prizes and spaces and we should submit because being "nice to people with mental health problems" or something.

As you so rightly point out: Those people who deserve our compassion are NOT the same people who demand access to our spaces. Cannot be the same people, because it just isn't logical at all.

It is time all women see this reality.

But there are trans people who don't accept they have a male body - they have always felt, therefore always been, female thus their body is female. So they aren't using a male body to defeat women.

I still don't know how they "know" they are female though.

They certainly accept male privilege

When the only toilets available are "Men" and "Gender Neutral", I'd say that women, girls and feminism are under threat.

But they aren't the only toilets available, are they? And, should we ever get to that point, which is highly unlikely (it's not envisaged in Maria Miller's Bill) then the same principles would apply to Men's and Women's toilets.

Thanks all. I've been mulling this over for a while, finding it more and more troubling.

YoullNeverWeeAlone - well I suppose if someone cannot accept a scientific fact that their body is male, when all science fact says that it is, then we cannot really expect them to act rationally about anything else.

I care very much for people with mental health troubles and protection for all so that isn't meant to sound dismissive of others opinions, but (compassionate) rationality and (compassionate) logic must surely prevail.

But there are trans people who don't accept they have a male body - they have always felt, therefore always been, female thus their body is female. So they aren't using a male body to defeat women.

Those males are not female, and they are not trans, they are just entitled males who don't like that women have some protections and think the trans narrative a good way to deceive women about their real intentions.

I am not fooled.

(And yes, I am quite sure those are the majority of the "transwomen" who want to compete against women.)

Mega there are places now that are changing toilets to include a gender neutral option but invarably it is the female toilets that are changed and the men's are kept the same.

If and when the amendments are made to our equality laws, the changes will affect both male and female facilties. However the impact will not be the same. Men have very little to fear from women but the same cannot be said in the reverse. We have sex segrated spaces for a reason.

The new amendments would mean you could not ask for a female carer to deal with your intimate needs if you were sick or disabled. Currently, when advertising for carers, specifying sex is allowed due to the nature of the employment. You would not be able to do this anymore. Trans people would be exempt.

So Brian who gives you the creeps can go online, fill in his change of gender form, a few days later you won't be able to refuse him as your carer if you needed one, on the basis of sex. No transition, no surgery, no hormones, no living in preferred gender, no counselling, nothing.

Not sure I'd get wound up about it, although if you have a daughter competing you'd be annoyed.

Megatherium Maria Miller makes it clear she does not believe there is any situation in which women should not accept self declared MTT.
There is no provision for women in the bill, it rides roughshod over the Equality Act.
Gender self identification is going to be brought in. And as at the moment, it will not require surgery.

''She praised the “important work” of single-sex services, such as rape crisis centres. “But those sorts of services should be supporting trans women,” she insisted.''
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/maria-miller-says-only-hostility-to-transgender-report-came-from-women-purporting-to-be-feminists-a6830406.html