To ask your child to keep quiet

[LozyLou]

Hi I need to vent about my SiL. I don't to want to be accused of drip feeding so will put you in the picture. My partners sister is married with three children although for a good few years now they have been claiming to be separated. However my Dh and and dBil have both suspected for a while now that something isn't quite right. Top and bottom of it is that despite claiming to be separated they still live very much as though they are together. At first I didn't think much of it as it's to be expected most decent parents would want to keep things amicable if only for the sake of their children. Anyway as time has gone on I've seen and heard things that have made me to believe that this isn't your typical mature and friendly separation.

My husband's sister moved out of her rented home some time ago now as she managed to get a house with her local council and the children's dad moved back in with his parents a short drive away. They still live in each other's pockets and he spends the majority of time at her house when he's not working. Child support aside as that's what you'd expect any loving father to provide, he still financially supports her, gives her money on a weekly basis to treat herself not just the children. He works on her house doing home improvements and spends the weekends with her having take always, watching TV, going on nights out etc.

Now I expect to be told that it's none of my business, and you're right it's not. However they are toying with their children's emotions here and I know for a fact they've been asking their children to keep quiet about their set up but kids are kids and they have confided in my children about how things are at home. The most recent being they have gone on holiday abroad together as a family but told no one and yesterday my Dd and niece have been on FaceTime and she's been talking about her holiday telling her she'd had a great time, what she'd been up to etc but she's also slipped up and said that her dad had gone with them and that she wasn't supposed to say anything.

If the benefit system has a loophole that allows couples to live like this and get away it then that's just the way it is. I don't agree with it one bit but there is nothing I can do. What I can't accept is that they are expecting their children to lie for them. What kind of a life is this?. Yes they may have more money living like this than they would have if they claimed as a couple but what decent parent puts money above their own children's peace of mind and happiness. My Dh is going to have a word with his mum but at the end of the day what can she do. His sister is a grown woman and is the most stubborn person so will do what she wants to do. But I can't help feel angry and feel for the kids having to live a lie. AiBu here?

Making the children lie to others
Unfortunately because of government policies this will be a common thing. Letting the rich get richer and letting the poor get destitute will result in this and much more. The government are turning their backs on the poor and disabled. The society we end up with because of their callous indifference will be on their heads.

I completely get what you're saying and as I have friends and family members who are disabled and have had their Dla/Pip taken away I sympathise as I see day to day the impact this is having on them. The situation with my sister in law however is completely different. She works and so does he and are not on the breadline. They're exploiting a loophole that exists and are being pure greedy.

I know of a family like this. They have 5 kids. Kids live with Mum. Dad lives elsewhere and mum and dad pretend they've split. They're raking it in - they own three 2-3yo cars, live in a large house, etc...

Scandalous.

Still I stay out of it. I don't care to poke my nose further - than just making an observation - into anyone's business.

MYOB

I agree OP.
I hate the loophole. I hate the fact that they are allowed to cheat.
People who are honest, who are waiting their turn on the Council House list, who are paying their tax every bloody month, who are doing the right thing are ridiculed and taken for mugs.

PPs saying it is none of your business are wrong - it is everyone's business. The people who are being made mugs of will also cheat sooner or later - as it is mad not to. Then there will be more tax dodgers, more cheats, more fare dodgers and petty thieves.

There are loads of benefits cheats - it is really not difficult. The backlash has already started but has a way to go yet.

They can legally be in a relationship and live separately without it affecting benefits, as long as he doesn't stay there for more than 4 nights per week.

This is a myth, I'm afraid. The cohabitation rules are very vague, but include things like do you have meals together, who shops and cooks, do you share other household chores, where does the allegedly non-resident partner keep their clothes and do their laundry, do you sit and watch tv together in the evenings/go out as a family together. Who sleeps where is just a tiny part of it.

This could well be a separated couple who still get on well, and are trying to do right by their kids. They may just want to avoid the horrors of benefits being suspended wrongly, and having to fight a long battle to prove they aren't cohabiting.

Reserve your ire for people like DP's BiL who is a millionaire twice over, and has managed to pay next to no tax over the last 15 years.

This is all very Jeremy Kyle. OP you sound like a terrible busybody, I wouldn't want my kids telling you anything either.

OP trying hard to make everyone believe she is concerned about the children when In reality wants to do a bit of benefit bashing
OP it's none of your business... you come access as extremely judgemental so maybe the kids are told to not tell you anything..
Can you hoist your judgy pants any higher up your arse...

The lie thing v social niceties is a false comparison. Thanking someone for something may not be the whole truth but it is partially true in that you appreciate that the person has been kind/thought of you.

Lying to cheat others out of their money/place on the list/ to cheat the system for your own gain is completely different.

When something becomes abused it gets taken away. Anyone who feels jealous or resentful is quite normal. It makes fools of us all. The anti-benefit bashers are either on benefits themselves or not struggling to pay every bill and tying themselves in knots to do another 6am shift to cover their costs while Family X stays in bed.

We need to acknowledge this and do something about it or everyone will lose benefits - and that would be a disaster.

But this family aren't staying in bed while others work. The wife is presumably paying tax given that she works ft. I can't help thinking that if they need to do this in order to give their dc a decent standard of living, then the problem is more with the system of low wages/insufficient benefits support than with the individual family just trying to live as best they can.

OP I think you are getting a really hard time on here. If people saw someone sneaking into an attraction for free, or took something out of a shop, or ran out of a restaurant without paying and asked on here if that was OK they would get flamed.
For some reason the posters on here think it is OK to steal from the taxpayers. Just because other people get away with things doesn't make it OK.
This family will also benefit from pupil premium in school, so will likely get uniforms paid for, school trips covered, free school meals. That all mounts up.
I agree with The anti-benefit bashers are either on benefits themselves or not struggling to pay every bill and tying themselves in knots to do another 6am shift to cover their costs while Family X stays in bed. Most of us are struggling to cover costs, and rarely have luxuries. So to see people who are doing v nicely thanks is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those of us who are honest and pay our taxes.
It is everyones business if people are stealing from the state.

How do you know they claim benefits?
How do you know they aren't separated or do fine as a couple unless they live together?
I know a family who live like this, have no benefits, both work and the children have 2 homes, parents have a 2 bed terrace each.
Sometimes one parent will stay over, but most often they live in different houses.

OP trying hard to make everyone believe she is concerned about the children when In reality wants to do a bit of benefit bashing

Really? The entire point of her post was about being concerned about the kids being told to lie. Nowhere did it mention shopping them to the authorities. This was then followed by post after post deriding her as a busybody who should mind her own business, whilst completely ignoring her original question as regards making children lie.

The only people obsessing about the benefit fraud aspect are those on this thread.

And no, it is not ok to make your kids accomplices in a lie about something which is essentially breaking the law.

My partner was at his mum's house this morning and it came up in conversation. His mum stuck up for partner's sister saying they're not "properly" together and basically she just uses him for cash. She said that she wasn't bothered about him going on holiday with her but he offered to pay for it and gave her a few hundred towards the kids spending money. Partner was gob smacked as clearly his mum thinks it's ok to live like that and it's not only ok to get your kids to lie, it's also ok to use people. Nice!

Jesus Christ I wouldn't want you in my family. How they live really isn't your business.

Benefit fraud (for this is most likely what it is ) is always seen as ok on MN. The trainee teacher who admitted commiting fraud with a bankcard on another thread was hung, drawn and quatered. Asking children to lie is wrong as is fraud in all its guises.

brownpurse, there is still no evidence that there is any benefit fraud though, is there?

In fact, now the OP is indignant because it isn't true that they are living together but how dare the SIL get her ex to pay for a holiday for the children.

How would reporting them benefit their children?

For all you know they might not get on well together if they live together for a million reasons which are not your business.

They could of split up and be making s go at it again for all you know.

If she's claiming as a single parent she is allowed to have a relationship with whoever she wants without mixing him in.

The whole set up sounds scandalous to me.

Op I totally agree with you.

Just try opening a thread on here about whether it would be ok to get your kids to lie about their ages in order to get into a theme park for free and you would get flamed.

However for some reason on here this is seen as ok.

What a long saga to get to your point .

YABU . Tired of this benefit bashing .

Go after the big boys , the tax avoiders and the like

Shop them. I would.

I paid £38,500 in tax last year, and do not expect it to be spent subsidising people who are prepared to game and cheat the system.

I don't expect the govt to allow big corporations and the elite-wealthy to get away with gaming the system either and think its disgusting thay their marginal rates of tax are so bloody low.

The two points are unrelated though. Not going after benefits cheats doesn't mean that big business will pay more. It just means benefits cheats get away with cheating. So shop them. If you suspect or know a fraud is being committed, what does it say about you to look the other way. It's like handling stolen goods.

The two points are unrelated though.

No, I don't believe they are unrelated. Per capita business cheats and UHNW individuals are cheating far far more than those cheating benefits.

The media doesn't vilify the rich for cheating the public purse like it does the people on benefits. There is a reason for this - a political agenda of course. The ruling elite protecting their own while shafting the rest of the country.

The hallmark of a civilised society is how we treat those who need a little or a lot of help to get through life in a civilised manner.

And I didn't know we were playing big swinging dicks - we pay a hell of a lot more taxes than you, icy and I don't give a flying fuck about some supposed family small time fraud situation. But it's no more my money once it is in the public purse than it is yours.

cakes well said