Supreme Court sides with government on term-time holidays

[Mulledwine1]

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-judgment.pdf

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-press-summary.pdf

AIBU to get the popcorn out for the discussion of why this is/is not a great judgment?

As an academy we have slightly altered term dates to try and allow cheaper holidays but it backfired as many parents didn't check and booked holiday in LA holiday weeks meaning they actually booked in term time!

There are countless very individual reasons why some families can't go on holiday in term time e.g. I knew of a family who has a very disabled child and were offered respite care so the rest of the family could go on holiday but it was term time. Then there are the families who work in hotels and tourism.... why should these people be denied a holiday?

What a disgrace.
School shouldn't be a prison. Skipping a few days shouldn't be a punishable offence, and families shouldn't need to beg for a permission.

So much for travel broadening the mind.

Sometimes it isn't about wanting a cheap holiday. I would love to be able to take ds on something like a caravan holiday in the uk during the school holidays but due to his complex needs (physical, learning and sensory) it isn't possible.
It won't ever get any easier so when other children become adults and are off travelling or going on a party holiday with their mates, he won't be doing those things.
I want him to have some experience of doing things that most people do whilst he is still small enough for us to 'cope' with him as we don't know how difficult it will become in the future.

The press are calling for bans on Holiday companies charging more during school holidays.

Which just reminds of us of how ignorant the press and its readers can be. Watch out for some fool of an MP to introduce the Law of Supply and Demand (Repeal) Bill.

Any parent who thinks the holiday they are planning is special and justifies missing school: just imagine if your children's teahers took the same view of their holiday plans.

The real point is that today the judge criminalised every single unauthorised absence.

Not exactly. It's been criminal since the Education Act of the 1940s, but prosecutions were rare. Then Labour introduced fines in 2003 and it's been simmering since, possibly because the new form of sanction made the issue more visible.

Heads still have discretion, and the removal of explicit mention of holidays and a 10 day limit was the only real change (lots of commentary about the difference between special and exceptional, but no difference in practice).

There has been very little from the unions on this - bodies who are usually highly vocal. That pupils should be in school in term time is perfectly reasonable to many.

As is school-level responsibility for when that can be varied.

The laws of supply and demand are illegal in lots of places Andrew. Monopolies are not allowed to exploit their power, drugs cannot be sold just for 2 examples.

I think it's an interesting idea although it would lead to shortages of holidays. Another issue is that it isn't just UK firms so if the hoteliers abroad put up their prices that is out of everyone's control.

I once had to take my kids for 4 days to visit their great grandmother who was turning 100. The school made it very difficult and made us feel very guilty. When I approached the teacher and asked for some work to be done while we are away she said she couldn't (why?). I did take books and we read and did some workbooks during our time away. But why can't a teacher say what they are planning to study over the next few day? Or give some work sheets?
Anyway it was a right decision at the time and I am glad we went as she died later that year and the kids saw her and would have a lasting memory.

Yes increasinglymiddleaged: but the enforcement of those laws is never better than patchy. And this is not a matter of monopoly or life-saving (or life-threatening) drugs.

As you say, the foreign hotelier and the foreign airline would simply sell their wares to businesses providing holidays to people in other countries.

An abuse of the NHS!

helena

I wouldnt mind but out surgery has 6/8 week waits for routine appointments

Which is one of the things my infurated husband pointed out when he emailed them about the new policy

andrew yes our teacher has taken the same view of her holiday plans. Do you know what we've all done? Club together to give her money to make a special holiday - she has cancer and most likely will not see her children grow up. There are more important things than education sometimes!

Laws like this make me keen on private education.

Why should the teacher go out her her way to produce worksheets (which are rarely used in most classrooms)?

It's interesting no one has pointed out he had 3 children on that holiday two where on Easter holidays the 3rd has differnt dates so missed a week of school. How can you work round that?

For me I work in an industry where school holidays are our busiest times of the year and time off banned except Christmas. So it's either take the fine or no family holidays. So far we've been lucky that school authorised on evidence. So no fine.

We also live on an LEA boundary and causes chaos with both having different holidays. A friend who teaches has one set of holidays - academy, one DD1 in primary one Lea one in secondary different Lea. Only had 4 days over the Easter period last year when they where all off together. May half terms also different. So it's not as black and white as some people suggest.

Also come from the perspective of my DH ex teacher who also sees no issue in term time holidays.

So don't agree with the Supreme Court.

All that would happen if holidays got cheaper in term time is that they would get more expensive in the rest of the year.

Some people will think this is great. Some people will think it's shit. Mostly depending on how it affects their pocket!

Argh got cheaper in HOLIDAY time. Maybe I need to go back to school

You don't get fined at private school.

some do.
some just kick you out for breach of contact.

apple

I would think it was shit

Nearly at the point when we could holiday in term time!!

Then the bastards change it

I think it further outlines a divide between private schools and state

I guess private school holidays are even longer, so there is even less reason to take your holiday in school time. And maybe parents value education more if they are paying extra for it over and above their taxes?

I said this right at the beginning, there are 13 weeks state school holidays in the year. Most people can find a week during that 13 weeks when they can go away. A small minority will have special circumstances which can be taken into account by headteachers.

If you're paying £5k per term in fees, you're already losing about £80 per day in a paid-for service not being used.

I don't think unauthorised absence is a particular problem in the independent sector is a particular problem.

I don't think it widens the gap between private and state more, parents with children at private school tend to greatly value education as they are willing to pay for it so I'd imagine term time holidays for them are rare.

So many in state see School as just something that gets in the way of their life and don't want to obey the rules re holidays, uniform etc but also aren't willing to opt out and home educate so just moan.

Education is important to children and teaching them it's ok to ditch school to go and sit on a beach sends the wrong message and will do nothing for their work ethic later in life.

Nobody needs a holiday, it's a luxury item. Dressing it up as family time doesn't wash, family time can be anywhere anytime.

@SuperSheepdog It's the right decision. I wish they would vary holiday times county to county though- surely some could start or end the summer holidays a week or two earlier/later? It's only Scotland that's different I think.

if they did that, you wouldn't be able to blink in the time it took for holiday companies to change their prices to suit the newly extended peak periods. It would still be about supply and demand (and demand is currently > supply, even at the highest price point).

I worked in finance in the travel industry. It is normal for travel companies to operate at a loss during the off season and then recoup their costs and make their profits during the high season weeks.

If it were made illegal to put prices up during school holidays, travel companies would either raise the prices of off season holidays to match the current prices of expensive weeks so that there is no longer a price difference, or they would all go bust. There would almost certainly be no reduced prices during school holidays as it is simply not financially viable.

The only thing that would substantially reduce high season prices would be longer / staggered holiday dates or greater flexibility about term time holidays, I.e. spreading demand over a longer period.

Yes you could have family time at home. But the point is to have family time together. You can't have family time when they are at school.
Education isn't the most important thing. Your relationships within your family are.
Having time with an ill parent is invaluable - there isn't always next year.

The private school we used didn't fine. And yes people did take time out. IT just wasn't an issue. IT annoys me that the school can allow say a German exchange, but you can't take them to see family overseas. No less cultural. No less important. We seem to be allowing a nanny state which dictates our every move.
It's ok to home educate - but our state school won't allow taking exams there as an exam centre. In some ways you are rather forced to use them which I think is wrong.

I have four children all at different educational establishments. This Easter we do not have one week that we are able to be together!