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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Supreme Court sides with government on term-time holidays

913 replies

Mulledwine1 · 06/04/2017 10:28

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-judgment.pdf

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-press-summary.pdf

AIBU to get the popcorn out for the discussion of why this is/is not a great judgment?

OP posts:
kierenthecommunity · 06/04/2017 21:00

Sadly not. Just a response bobby. Maybe that's why I get to go on holiday as I'm so less important Grin

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 06/04/2017 21:02

Sounds like my brother keiren Smile

He doesnt seem to have two much of a problem with proper holidays but they are always geting their leave cancelled

I think his fiancé finds it very frustrating

kierenthecommunity · 06/04/2017 21:11

not had any leave cancelled...yet! It's poor if that force are cancelling it on an ad hoc basis Sad as far as I'm aware it should only be if the wheel really comes off. The last time our force had wholesale cancellations was for a very high profile missing child case I think

kierenthecommunity · 06/04/2017 21:11

Oh, and for another high profile riot

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 06/04/2017 21:13

I think it was for bigger stuff to be fair

Hasnt happened too often...thank goodness or he would never hear the end of it Grin

ShotsFired · 06/04/2017 21:33

With respect Unihorn, this, "If it's £1200 13 weeks of the year and £400 39 weeks of the year then this logic is not correct. It should be £600 every week so i disagree sorry" is a pretty naive view, because seasonal costs fluctuate by the day so it's nothing like as simple as you make out.

But the fact remains, whether you like it or not, that you aren't paying over the odds, you are simply paying full price - and in fact it could be even higher. Your peak season prices help offset the low season troughs in customers that holiday-based businesses rely on, and therefore discount to tempt people in. An empty bed is lost forever.

LornaD40 · 06/04/2017 21:42

This guy who has brought the case really grinds my gears. He bleats on about "near perfect attendance" which is bollocks - his child had 90% attendance which is equivalent to a half day absence every week.
This. 90% attendance is really poor!

I'm pleased with the ruling.

Sara107 · 06/04/2017 21:47

I don't believe the economics of term time holidays are as great as made out. The headline cost may well be much less. But, we are both working, so our annual leave doesn't cover the existing school holidays anyway. So we need to use childcare offtake unpaid leave. If we took a week or two off in term, that would another week or two needing cover in the holidays. At £30 a day for childcare, and much greater cost if I take unpaid leave.

CatsDogsandDC · 06/04/2017 21:53

I await with interest seeing this judgment being enforced in the various inner city schools I have worked where it is quite normal for classes to have a very high proportion of children from families who disappear for several weeks at a time to go and visit family in their home country.

That is not going to change just because a bunch of judges said it should and if the LEA level punitive fines the families will just take their children out of school permanently. Many of the parents talked about it being better to educate girls at home anyway and we struggled to keep them in school. This decision will, I suspect, do a great disservice to many girls who will just end up outside the system altogether.

Buck3t · 06/04/2017 21:56

Sorry Danny but no. I think you will have to point me to the legislation where transformers is okay to watch diring term time. Any DVD watching (worry it's not the 80s) needs to be educational. Bit do correct me if I'm wrong.

MaisyPops · 06/04/2017 22:01

Buck
Instructions in every school ive worked jn has been that you work until the end of term.
Theres some flexibility in task e.g. this week my gcse groups have just done a mock exam paper so we're watching a film version if their exam text on the last day. But i have set things i want notes on. Yes, its nicer than more essays but its purposeful.
Sadly, you get tje odd person who tries to be 'cool' and wind down in the last week but its not the norm.

sportinguista · 06/04/2017 22:03

I totally agree with what you're saying about inner city schools as till recently our DS was in one. Certain groups of parents were repeat offenders in taking extended trips to home countries. It had limited impact on those. Also the ones who didn't bother to bring kids in sometimes.

We home ed now and since we don't observe school holidays we educate all the time. It's a different dynamic and it makes you appreciate that a great deal of teaching time is probably lost in getting 30 kids organised whereas one in one you get quite a bit more done.

Me and my sister were taken out sometimes by my parents but both have good degrees and careers. A large part of this was down to parental attitude, discipline and aspiration. As regards some of the educational establishments I attended, I would say that in some cases I got an education in spite of them, not because of them. I had some inspirational teachers, but many were occupied in crowd control.

From my sons former teachers I always heard that the fines rarely changed the attitudes of the true persistent truants.

Ktown · 06/04/2017 22:05

The point of this ruling is to prevent abuse and people who would do it for religious/random/any reasons.
It isn't for 1 cheap holiday to florida. Why make such a bloody point though I do not know.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/04/2017 22:10

Apparently it's been reported that Jon Platt intends to plead not guilty when the matter is returned to the magistrates' court - also that he doesn't expect to be found guilty

Does this man possess no common sense at all? Hmm

Buck3t · 06/04/2017 22:15

Maisypops this happens every year since my son's first year. Primary right through to high school. It appears to be just the done thing. At least last week one of them was Evan almighty in RE. Which had sone kind of connection to the topic in hand.

FairytalesAreBullshit · 06/04/2017 22:16

We live in a LA that allows a week during term time, but we've never taken them up on the offer.

As long as it's not an important year, I can't see the harm.

It's a parents choice what they do with their little ones.

Headofthehive55 · 06/04/2017 22:20

I think it further outlines a divide between private schools and state. You don't get fined at private school.
I also think the law says you have to give your child an education not you have to send them to school. So I think it's at odds with that - my point us that there is no reasonable consistency.

I would like to go away with my children after my treatment - don't really care about the money but I would like appreciation that making memories for my children to have of their mum is as important as being in school. An education, whilst important is not actually everything. I will not be well enough in the 6 weeks. But will either before or after.

11122aa · 06/04/2017 23:27

The press are calling for bans on Holiday companies charging more during school holidays. While that sounds good, economically i imagine it would kill smaller holiday firms and also damage the larger ones as wholesale hotel costs abroad wont be able to be covered by this.

11122aa · 06/04/2017 23:31

So they would have to take a loss on the summer holiday to cover the higher hotel costs for August compared to June while getting the same from the customer.

SuperSheepdog · 06/04/2017 23:42

It's the right decision. I wish they would vary holiday times county to county though- surely some could start or end the summer holidays a week or two earlier/later? It's only Scotland that's different I think.

11122aa · 06/04/2017 23:55

The different school holidays is quite unpopular due to some people have kids in schools with different dates, children of teachers being off at different times and extended families not being off at the same time.

PrincessLeia80 · 06/04/2017 23:58

As an aside my youngest in her first year at school has been given homework for Easter holidays in the form of double reading 4 books for the 2 weeks and 2 small but time consuming projects. She is also being in a church school expected to attend rehearsals leading upto a performance Easter weekend in church if she misses any of these it will go against her in school! So we would be unable to go on holiday during the Easter holidays.

HelenaDove · 07/04/2017 01:59

"Many schools now insist on production of a fit note from a Dr as the deem appointment letters no longer sufficient. Drs don't usually do this for children and some charge for this additional service"

An abuse of the NHS!.

drspouse · 07/04/2017 04:00

Our DS school has also gone down the route of extra days at May half term to make it more possible to take your main holiday then. However this only works if all your DCs are in the same school. DD's nursery also closes for an Easter break but it only overlaps with DS school by one day. We are near a county boundary so one DC may be in secondary school in the other county.

One year my secondary school Guides had their Easter break, then everyone was in school for a week, then my primary school Guides had theirs!

So staggering the holidays is not all the solution. But for a farming or tourist area, if all the schools do it, it may help.

I am much more sympathetic WRT parents odd holiday requirements than "it's cheaper". I can't take half terms in my job as they are a busy time. August often is too but thankfully Easter is usually OK and we can either go somewhere non-mainstream or holiday at home all together if we are feeling skint.

LornaD40 · 07/04/2017 06:50

"Many schools now insist on production of a fit note from a Dr as the deem appointment letters no longer sufficient. Drs don't usually do this for children and some charge for this additional service"
I've not heard of this.. usually a stamp from the receptionist/Gp to say they've been is sufficient.

We often ask for medical evidence to catch out those who have taken 5+ days out claiming it is illness! This rarely washes anymore.