Supreme Court sides with government on term-time holidays

[Mulledwine1]

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-judgment.pdf

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0155-press-summary.pdf

AIBU to get the popcorn out for the discussion of why this is/is not a great judgment?

Iris, for someone so well educated you don't seem to get the point. We can't have all the senior detectives on holiday at the same time because the naughty people are sometimes naughty in the school holidays. Sometimes when they are naughty during term time the investigation is still going on in school holidays or the case might get listed for court during the school holidays, you see judges are even less likely to give you two weeks off for your holidays than head teachers are.

You are actually quite right that they don't only commit crimes during term time but if they did why would that mean we needed to take our holidays during term time? I think you got that a bit mixed up.

Of course if you are a teacher it is easy for you to take holidays in school holidays, lucky you.

An awful lot of narrow minded people on here who don't understand how other people's jobs work.

You don't need the holiday. That's the point. School rules should prevail over someone's desire (never need) for a holiday. Anyway the court has spoken and now everyone knows. Of course they have the right to home school and some will pay fines and still take unauthorised time.

Was he the only one in the police station who caught criminals then? No but funnily enough most of his colleagues of his rank had families, fairly predictable as wouldn't be in first years of service so tended to be 30 minimum to 50. Are you seriously telling me you would be happy to find out all the experienced officers in your local CID were off on holiday? If you were the victim of a serious crime I think you might take it a bit more seriously. Apart from that not all police officers are going to be investigating the most serious crimes and there will be a SIO on all the cases, on top of that you can't just walk away and leave the investigation for 2 weeks so sometimes leave gets cancelled at short notice.

If education is so valued you'd think they'd be increasing rather than cutting funding.
Children learn a lot more when properly supported.

BarbarianMum, I don't know the statistics but it isn't about rape and murder being more likely in the holidays it is about needing enough experienced officers to deal with cases if they happen, and it is unpredictable. Also as I say above it is also about how long the investigation takes, not like TV where it is all wrapped up in an hour, plus the listing of the cases and how long the case takes when it gets to court.

The truth is the thin blue line is actually pretty thin and if we aren't careful it won't be there at all.

As far as I know no privately educated children's parents have been fined. I think the father in this case took out a secondary age child too but no fine was issued as she was privately educated.

You don't need the holiday. That's the point.

Yes I do. It's essential that I get a break from domestic labour and the admin of mine and two disabled children's lives. I have no support, no respite, their father sees them once a month for two hours. I know what we need, not you.

Completely agree with the ruling. A trip to Disney is not educational - he was taking the piss. As many others have said, you don't have to go abroad on holiday. We can't often get time off in the summer and we can't necessarily afford to do that away, but that's fine. There's plenty of things to do in the UK. Holidays abroad are not a right.

Agree with granny re detectives, police etc

It can be difficult for them to plan holidays

Not all of them obviously

• and I have a child with SEN too. She's 7 and we've been on holiday abroad with her just once, to Europe - and it was in the school holidays. I find holidays away far more stressful as the change in routine means she's completely unsettled and doesn't sleep - but that is not the point.

MsGame I couldn't agree more, being in virtually the same boat. When you're a lone parent with disabled dc a holiday is essential.

Thanks Rufus. I think it is quite funny really, couple of weeks ago when a policeman was murdered it was all support the police and now they aren't even entitled to a family holiday. People are fickle.

There are other jobs that are also impossible to just let people have time off, you could just as easily say let all the cardiac surgeons go off at the same time, doesn't matter as there will be an onologist, a paediatrician and an obstetrician on duty, unless you have a heart attack when lets face it you really want a the cardiac surgeon.

They're not discriminating over where people are going on holiday you know!

I love holidaying in the UK. I can't bloody afford it in the school holidays. I don't want to go to Disneyland, I want to go to a cheap (or not!) caravan park in the UK.

But it's the people who can afford to go abroad who are taking the fine. I can't afford to do that so we go without a holiday.

Yes, it's not a right but it would be nice to see other parts of the country sometimes. And take my kids off for a nice holiday awAy from home.

We're not going abroad. DS1 has been finding the difference between him and his peers difficult enough so taking him away when they're on the residential trip should hopefully be enough to distract him from it. And we as a family benefit too. The school will probably be relieved he won't be in. I will accept a reasonable fine but not £2400.

Are you seriously telling me you would be happy to find out all the experienced officers in your local CID were off on holiday?

Eh? How did you manage to infer that from my post?

Common sense says that if you must do it then a week in a 'less important' year and thr parenta make sure work is caught up.
Sadly, sone people dont use common sense and would:
1.Take their child out for a week over published controlled assessment dates and then complain that the child had to do the work after school (it counted to their final gcse!)
2.Take their child out for a week in year 11 and then complain to management about the teacher becauae there was a test when she came back from hols
3.Take the child out for 2.5 weeks in y11 and demand teh class teachers gave 1-1 in all 9 subjects ti get the child caught up. Became stroppy when this wasnt an option.

1. Take your child to visit family in asia for 7 weeks and wanted all the work in advance (we dont use worksheets and text books etc so it would be custom making a whole half tern of work for 1 child)

All true examples in the last couple of years.

As a teacher a week isnt going to be awful as long as it doesnt hit exam years but there should be zero expectation that staff are providing 1-1 catchup.

As an irrelevant aside, the man doing the case wound me up the second he started talking abou 90% attendance being good. Thats 1 day off a fortnight! I also found completely obnoxious to listen to. I would have had some sympathy had he not spent his tike parading around like the big 'i am' who will rescue parents.

I would have had some sympathy had he not spent his tike parading around like the big 'i am' who will rescue parents

Are you sure it wasn't this Jon Platt himself? After all, it sounds horribly familiar

*How can it be that you fine people to take their children out of school for a week but I hear absolutely sweet FA from anyone for simply never registering my kid for school in the first place.

If schools had any interest in anything beyond precious league table points all this would be a total and utter non-issue.*

^^This. Schools only comply because attendance affects their OFSTED rating. Most teachers do not agree with fines and believe that education is a lot more than time spent in school.

I agree with previous posters. 90% attendance at my school would be one of our worst and the school welfare officer who comes to check attendance would flag it up as needing following up. I also get cross with posters who say " miss the last few days/week, they don't do anything anyway." I teach Reception and I teach the chn right up until the last day.

The holiday thing is a distraction (and I agree term time holidays aren't cool - although I don't think that should mean they are crimes).

The real point is that today the judge criminalised every single unauthorised absence. This now gives a headteacher complete discretion over whether or not you get a criminal record if you keep your child off school or your childminder drops them off late. Many heads are great but some are morons. They now hold a lot of power.

There have already been many cases of a parent informing the school that the child is too ill to attend and the headteacher disagreeing and arranging for the parent to be fined. Now the parent will also get a criminal record.

Illnesses like scarlet fever, measles etc are massively increasing because parents are scared of letting their children be off sick.

Agree with everything DoloresTheRunawayTrain said, and feeling very depressed how many people have missed the point of what happened today.

Most kids are not that thick that they wouldn't be able to catch up if they miss a couple of weeks of school.

Also, I think this is really not about the kids, it's just a way for struggling schools to raise funds as the government is cutting their funding all the time.

The real point is that today the judge criminalised every single unauthorised absence
Nobody inknow in schools wanted this to go to the supreme court for this reason.

The case is proof of where arrogance gets you. The man running his mouth off thought he was untouchable and in doing this he risks making things worse for most reasonable parents and reasonable schools.

The money doesn't go to the schools, not, it goes to the local authority.

And yes, we are struggling with our budgets but £120 is going to make fuck all difference.

This guy who has brought the case really grinds my gears. He bleats on about "near perfect attendance" which is bollocks - his child had 90% attendance which is equivalent to a half day absence every week.

This is exactly what I thought. Plus part of the other abscence was due to his ex-wife also taking the child on holiday in term time. Do this kid misssed 18-20 days of school so the parents could save some money

The police officers argument is slightly lame too, I'm a cop and a parent, so are others in my team but no one has enough leave to take all the school holidays off. So if you're organised there's enough to go round. I had to have some specially approved as it included the August bank holiday weekend which was a ball ache but I got it eventually.

As for cheap holidays, this is why my last three have been at Haven as they're not silly money on holidays, especially with a Sun deal and a bit of planning

Oh so youre a senior detective as well keiren?

As i said im sure its not all police...must very from force to force

Agree with you re the court case

The news today said the daughter had 92% attendance...that doesnt seem very good to me at all!

Even with leave only being granted if attendance is good...she wouldnt have been granted it