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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

585 replies

Exercisejunkieforlife · 05/04/2017 08:54

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

OP posts:
SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 05/04/2017 11:08

As a male teacher I imagine I would be terrified of being accused of something

Why do you think teenage girls are so interested in 'accusing people of something'? Confused

WhatchaMaCalllit · 05/04/2017 11:08

I actually don't know why skorts are not used as part of the uniform in the UK.
A skirt with a pair of shorts together. Sorts out so many issues. They are widely available in the US, just not in the UK....

Trifleorbust · 05/04/2017 11:09

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

I didn't say the girls would accuse anyone. I said they might be scared that they would be accused. And working in a secondary school, I can tell you accusations are made fairly regularly.

'Boo hoo for them' is a daft attitude to take. The uniform code is there for a reason, so it isn't fair to say it is just their problem and to get over it. A very reasonable policy can make these issues go away, so it doesn't need to be 'boo hoo' for anyone.

Trifleorbust · 05/04/2017 11:11

Why do you think teenage girls are so interested in 'accusing people of something?

In general I don't. But it happens, and when it does the stain doesn't rub off easily. It is perfectly reasonable to want to be beyond reproach in this regard. If that means you shouldn't be forced to look at people's underwear, that's fine by me.

claritytobeclear · 05/04/2017 11:12

On the face of it I agree with the OP. Yes, 15 year old girls should not be sexualised this way. Neither is it fair if their skirts have to come from a uniform shop but boys can get trousers anywhere.

However then I thought whether I think it is appropriate when men wear low slung trousers that expose their buttock cheeks (nearest comparison I can think of) and thought definitely, 'No!'. So there has to be middle ground and an appropriate way to describe what clothes are acceptable.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 05/04/2017 11:12

Oh, you don't think they'd do it but you'd be scared they might?

You keep on and on about girls 'accusing' men of things.

FrenchLavender · 05/04/2017 11:12

So where was the corollary advice for boys?

Well I imagine they have reacted to the need and the situation as they see it now. I am sure if the boys were coming in wearing tiny shorts with their balls hanging out, or mini skirts and thongs then they would be told the same. Truth is, they probably aren't and probably never do.

Perhaps the school would have been wise to draft a letter that covered both sexes and all eventualities just to keep it nice and gender neutral and PC. But that is just evading the real issue, which is that it's the girls who are dressing inappropriately in this instance.

alltouchedout · 05/04/2017 11:12

I actually don't know why skorts are not used as part of the uniform in the UK.
Because that would be practical and sensible- and UK school uniforms are not designed to be either!

RainyDayBear · 05/04/2017 11:12

I don't think there's an issue with reinforcing about appropriate dress. I think they should have said it makes all teachers feel uncomfortable though, not just male. I'm a female teacher and sometimes the skirts are so short you can see underwear and it really is inappropriate! Equally I dislike being able to see the boys boxers, though the baggy trousers trend does seem to be dying out. Underwear should be under your clothes!!

Pestilentialone · 05/04/2017 11:13

Op did not say male teachers were sexually aroused by teenage gussets. Male teachers are uncomfortable because if they mention the short skirt and knicker flashing they may be accused of being a perv. The parents may then complain and the teacher find themselves suspended and career over.
This thread demonstrates exactly why many potential male teachers steer well clear of the profession. Nobody wants to be called a perv or paedo just because parents can't be bothered to make sure their kids are properly addressed.
I am always stunned by how many teenage girls do sit there legs akimbo.

ElisavetaFartsonira · 05/04/2017 11:14

You're giving me a bit of a headache.

The feeling is more than mutual trifle.

If we don't know that the boys need to have the uniform code reiterated (as nothing like this is mentioned in the OP's post) what on earth are you complaining about? If there was a double standard on display I would agree with you, but so far all we know is that the school felt it necessary to speak to the girls but not the boys.

If we don't know that the boys don't need the uniform code reiterating, you shouldn't have said that they don't.

And yet again, there is a double standard on display because, based on what we have been told, the school told the girls that they need to consider the males around them and has said nothing of the sort to the boys. There is no way to make that not a double standard: you can try to excuse it, but you cannot say it is something other than what it is.

Plus, there is nothing wrong with telling them that their breaches of the uniform code are having a negative effect on the boys. The code is there to make sure everyone can get on and learn, so if one group is at risk of not being able to do that because of the actions of another group, telling them so is just telling the truth.

Yes, there is everything wrong with it.

This is happening in a wider societal context which tells women that they need to consider male feelings about their behaviour and dress. The same policing does not exist for men. It is harmful to women and girls. These things are all facts.

Perpetrating it in schools is unacceptable, particularly when they could simply have been told that the uniform rules are non-optional. You cannot, however much you might like to, divorce this from the wider societal context.

But I thought bertrand's nothing sexist here folks, move on, summed it up quite well.

NancyWake · 05/04/2017 11:14

Trifleorbust

You need to have a massive word to yourself.

But if they turn round from the blackboard and suddenly see someone's crotch, it isn't a sackable offence (in my opinion) to have a physical reaction.

Seriously?

What about PE teachers? Swimming, gymnastics, changing rooms etc.

Would you argue that female teacher are equally in danger from seeing a 15 year old boy's pants?

Porpoiselife · 05/04/2017 11:15

why is nobody upset about the poor girls being distracted by underwear

Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent.

So a 15 year old boy seeing a 15 year old girls knickers peeking out from under her skirt will inevitably find that arrousing. A 15 year old girl seeing a 15 year old boys boxers peeking out over his trouser waistband - not arrousing

Sparklingbrook · 05/04/2017 11:15

Well I imagine they have reacted to the need and the situation as they see it now. I am sure if the boys were coming in wearing tiny shorts with their balls hanging out, or mini skirts and thongs then they would be told the same. Truth is, they probably aren't and probably never do.

Exactly. And I assume all these schools where boys wear saggy school trousers with their boxers hanging out don't have blazers that cover it. Confused

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 05/04/2017 11:16

Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent

a law of nature?

Jazzywazzydodah · 05/04/2017 11:16

Secondary school is a hot bed of raging hormones. Why do people expect tweens to behave like mature adults? Girls have rolled up their skirts forever.

Teenage boys will always be distracted by teenage girls and vice versa - that's why girls roll their skirts up , I think it's acceptable that uniform is adhered to so not to be distracting.

Trifleorbust · 05/04/2017 11:16

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

I don't, at all. It is a fact, however, that accusations are made regularly. If you are a teacher it is something you are trained to avoid by taking obvious precautions: don't be alone in a room with a student with the door closed, don't connect on social media, observe professional boundaries in conversation etc. Of course you are going be uncomfortable seeing the crotch of someone to whom you are discouraged from disclosing your first name! This isn't about saying the girls are doing anything wrong. It is about common sense and fairness for everyone.

ElisavetaFartsonira · 05/04/2017 11:17

Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent.

Erm, what?

claritytobeclear · 05/04/2017 11:17

I also being mortified as a young girl when I decided to look at my back view, using two mirrors, in a short skirt that I liked. Yes you could see my knickers when I leant forward even slightly. Some girls might not even realise.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/04/2017 11:17

Mind you, my electrician used to have his pants and hairy arsecrack out all the time when we got the rewiring done. Very difficult for me, as I had to keep running out of the room to sort myself out

Mine did too! They were quite distinctive because they had a fundraising / charity event message around the waistband. My partner and I actually saw them for sale when we were out once and I said (unthinkingly) "oooh they are the same pants that the electrician wears".

Sparklingbrook · 05/04/2017 11:18

I have teens aged 15 and 17 and have seen many of their friends in school uniform, and done High School drop offs quite a lot over the years. Never have I seen a schoolboy's boxers.

NancyWake · 05/04/2017 11:19

I know of no school where a male teacher can see 15 year old girls getting changed for pe. There's a reason for that.

I wasn't only taking of changing rooms, but on that point, you're assuming their straight. We had two gay female PE teachers.

NancyWake · 05/04/2017 11:20

Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent.

Oh for the love of God.

NancyWake · 05/04/2017 11:21

their

they're

LaSegundaPaloma · 05/04/2017 11:22

OP I think you need to get a grip here and you would be very U to challenge the school.
They could have just said - "All skirts must be purchased from the school uniform shop and must be if a certain length as is school policy." What difference would that have made? It's blatantly obvious WHY it is school policy and this school are just being honest.

This is a school not a nightclub fgs and your daughter needs to learn now that there are certain dress codes in certain spheres. What will she do when she starts work?
Of course men should be able to control themselves - and largely they do - but to suggest that they don't notice short skirts is completely ridiculous! What planet are people on? If it wasn't provocative, the girls wouldn't bother doing it would they - unconsciously or otherwise? This is the real world and people arguing for the "right" to wear mini skirts in school need to get over themselves.