Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

is it ok to stare at everyone different from your sons or just the girls?

Everyone will look at someone's arse hanging out!

But apparently it's only the boys they need to worry about distracting and "sexually provoking"?

1. The girls are not 'nude', they are wearing skirts that are shorter than regulations
2. The boys will see a lot more 'nudity' than that in the street, in clubs, on beaches - do you think they get affected 'emotionally and physically' in a negative way by that?
3. Where does 'fault' come into it? Only if they act on this emotional and physical anguish surely? Nobody's saying boys shouldn't or won't like seeing knickers. But the idea that it's a huge problem is daft.

YANBU.

Fine to insist on the dress code being followed. Wrong to say that girls are responsible for males being distracted by dress code violations. This sends the wrong message.

This.

Appropriate attire message- fine.

It's your duty to ensure all the menz are comfortable- not fine.

Kneel in public to ensure that you are complying with the duty to make all the menz feel comfortable- fuck me it's Gilead. (PP mentioned kneeling during assembly to demonstrate attire compliance)

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

If a man (teacher or not) is on holiday and gets an erection, he can stick a towel over it, ignore it, leave etc. If a male student gets an erection in the middle of P3 History, he is at risk of being horribly embarrassed in front of his peers. If a male teacher gets an erection whilst teaching a class (it makes me feel a bit icky even saying it) he will probably lose his job. Now I know people will be inclined to say "Well, he should lose his job!" but again, I think that is unfair. He should be able to get on with teaching without being exposed to skimpy female underwear (or even more graphic sights).

too much flesh on display from either sex is distracting and not ideal. It's a learning and working environment

So where was the corollary advice for boys?

He should be able to get on with teaching without being exposed to skimpy female underwear (or even more graphic sights).

No, he needs to be able to control himself, if he can't he's in the wrong job.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

If you are wearing very skimpy underwear and a very short skirt, as another poster has described, you can indeed be exposing others to your nudity. Small knickers or a thong will show pubic hair and buttocks. It really is very unfair.

And yes, I do think men and boys are affected by what they see in the street. They get aroused. This is normal. It isn't normal to have to feel that way in class. The environment is formal so the dress code needs to be formal too. This precludes undies.

Now, I don't have a son, but don't teenage boys spend quite a lot of time getting erections anyway? I think male teachers, as adults, are probably a bit less likely to get a surprise like that though!

You're talking as though the girls are sitting there with legs akimbo and sexy pants on show, or that male teachers are actually likely to be aroused by a slab of 15 year old thigh!

Trifle, if a parent asked why the school was insisting that pupils of both sexes must not wear clothes which reveal underwear or are generally too short, tight or revealing, I would respond with the following points:

-not appropriate for school in the same way as it would not be appropriate in the workplace.
-overtly sexualised clothing is not suitable for either sex in a school setting. Whilst at school, they are there to learn and revealing clothing can create a distraction for the wearer and others.
-risks creating "competition"- who can wear the shortest skirt, lowest-slung trousers etc. It is easier to have clear rules that cannot be exploited.

I'd find out what was actually said first, rather than take the interpretation of a no doubt indignant 15 year old.

^^ This is a good idea.

It's not impossible that some interpreting on what was actually said might have gone on.

Perhaps there was talk about people being made to feel uncomfortable - it's not impossible that the girls thought this meant boy/men and haven't considered flashing their nickers to their female teachers an issue?

If not then then school tackled it the wrong way and yes it need pointing out to them.

Small knickers or a thong will show pubic hair and buttocks. It really is very unfair

Oh for goodness sake! From short skirts to pubic hair and buttocks? Really???

Mind you, my electrician used to have his pants and hairy arsecrack out all the time when we got the rewiring done. Very difficult for me, as I had to keep running out of the room to sort myself out.

Sometimes seeing children's underwear is an occupational hazard of being a teacher. Students take clothes on and off, change for sport, come to lessons wearing kit.

If you cannot cope with that and you can't look a your students in totally non-sexualised way then you need to change profession.

Most unfair to put me in that position in my own home. The emotional and physical effects were impossible.

NancyWake:

Again, incredibly unfair. Men cannot always 'control' the physical happenstance of getting an erection. They can obviously control their behaviour. If a male teacher is getting erect in class because of thighs, ankles, bra straps, swishy hair, then yes, he is absolutely in the wrong job. Generally I would say most male teachers wouldn't get an erection because they saw knickers either! Mostly they will feel uncomfortable and try to avert their eyes in case they are accused of something. But if they turn round from the blackboard and suddenly see someone's crotch, it isn't a sackable offence (in my opinion) to have a physical reaction. They should never be put in that position to start with.

Nancy exactly!

I have two teenage boys. I honestly have no idea how much time they spend getting erections. Especially during school hours.

In our school, uniform regs say girls can wear either trousers or skirts, so we are not forcing girls to only wear skirts.

So where was the corollary advice for boys

Unfortunately non-existent.

I remember going to a school event of my little sister a few years ago. Many young men/boys had saggy trousers and their underwear on show. It was apparently fine.

Why is nobody upset about the poor girls being distracted by male underwear?
Why were we told to dress a certain way but the sometimes incredibly stinky (!) male teens were never told to shower after sport? The stench was very distracting. Telling boys to shower is apparently rude. Telling girls to wear longer skirts? Perfectly fine...

Proper school uniforms? Yes. But the reason that was given? horrible.

And there always seems to be a double standard.
Flashing your boxershorts? Well, he's a bit lazy, righ?
Short skirt, flashing your knickers? sexually provocative. How can we expect the poor boys to concentrate?!

I developed very early. Like 32DD at 13. I was constantly bloody told off for being a distraction. My bloody shoulders in PE?! Are you kidding me.

Instead of teaching girls that they are responsible for the inappropriate thoughts and feelings of their male teachers and the distraction of their male classmates...teach the boys that the female body is not there for their pleasure, and if they cannot look at a leg or shoulder without wine overcome with discomfort and lust in a bloody school...they need to sort themselves out.

If you are buying the skirt from the school uniform guide then it is the men that have a problem, not you or your daughter.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

There is no 'for goodness sake' about it. I have seen teenagers walking upstairs in thongs. As a female teacher it made me feel uncomfortable seeing their buttocks. As a male teacher I imagine I would be terrified of being accused of something.

Mostly they will feel uncomfortable and try to avert their eyes in case they are accused of something

Well boohoo for them!

And can we stop with the trope of the girls 'accusing' men of things? There's a very nasty assumption here that one of the problems is that the girls (having dressed in a 'provocative' way) will then somehow be driven to pursue false accusations of innocent men, and I don't like the assumptions that lie behind that.

Just in response to those who think schoolgirls wear short skirts to impress boys and adult men....we all rolled our skirts up at school (there was a uniform length) and I can absolutely assure you it was nothing at all to do with the men. They didn't cross our minds. We rolled our skirts up for the same reason we wore our ties askew and tried to get away with non-uniform jumpers...because we were pushing boundaries and trying to circumvent the rules. Boys didn't feature at all.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a uniform skirt length but it should definitely not be anything to do with the males. Telling girls they need to dress that way because otherwise the male teachers and students will feel uneasy is absolutely bloody weird, as well as offensive since women are not responsible for men's sexual feelings.

nancywake

I know of no school where a male teacher can see 15 year old girls getting changed for pe. There's a reason for that.