Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

I don't know of any secondary schools near me that allows bare legs, so at best you would see underwear and a pair of tights over! Not classy no, but hardly indecent exposure.

DD1 secondary school allows tights or black socks.

From what I've seen of the really short skirt walking in with my younger children it about 50-50 tights and socks and the tights range from opaque to sheer.

I pretty sure Op said she hadn't noticed particularity short skirts at her DD school - so may not have this issue.

It's clearly an issue where I am - and several teachers on here have said they've been gifted with flashes of underwear so it's clearly an issue in some school.

I think it's for him to decide how he feels about being called a pervert not you.
He had nothing to worry about because of the circumstances you described and I explained that to him afterwards. But, right there right then, he was very worried. And that's the point I'm trying to make; he was just going about his job perfectly innocently and was made to feel acutely uncomfortable through no fault of his own.

I'd happily advocate no uniform, kids would come in trackies, jeans and tshirts. The fancy clothes and more daring things girls ware on non uniform day ( cause lets admit it , the boys just wear jeans and a t shirt anyway) wouldn't happen.

Lots of parents like uniform though.

I'm not saying he can't feel whatever he wants Teejay but I'd be questioning whether teaching in a high school is really for him!
Also if it was the wind blowing up a girls skirt, it was hardly her fault either! I have a 50's style dress, that I don't wear on windy days for that reason, it's sits a little below my knee.

Emboo19

why would it be the wrong job for him when (in &Teejay*'s example) he hadn't even said anything yet he has an accusation to deal with?

I think we can all agree the male teacher thing shouldn't have been brought into it at all.

Yes its uncomfortable for them if you can see a 15 year old's pants, but maybe that should have been left unsaid.

As should the thing about the boys.

Maybe the girls did need to be told about adhering to the rules, and it left at that.

It wasn't exactly a accusation was it? She said are you perving at me sir? He's working with teenagers, he's going to hear worse and he will need to be able to deal with it. I'd worry if he's so concerned about being accused he may not deal with the issue at hand appropriately.

The debate here isn't about whether this teacher should be a teacher or not (he should by the way - he's excellent) it's about how, in certain circumstances, male teachers can completely innocently find themselves with a clear view of a girl's underwear. This can be uncomfortable for them - not because they, as some posters think, they will succumb to uncontrollable urges but because it can , and has, led to accusations that are deeply damaging. My example was to illustrate that.

Also my DH is also a teacher. If he were to find himself in these circumstances I would ne happy with any of his colleagues who dismissed his concerns as lightly as you have.

Emboo19

It wasn't exactly a accusation was it?

you don't know or you are not sure?
maybe it was done to make him feel uncomfortable?

Being called a "perv", "pedo" etc is not exactly nice.

How would you respond if the school rang you up and said that your DD had been saying this about teachers and was being punished?

"unhappy" not "ne happy"

Emboo

One of my female colleagues was made uncomfortable by a teenage boys fully erect penis. It was inside his jogging pants but it was obvious.
She turned the tables skillfully and made light of the matter and talked about it with him (with a chaperone) after the lesson.

Was she unreasonable to feel uncomfortable? I can say with certainty she was in no way aroused by this experience.

We had a mufti day last week. My young assistant wouldn't leave my room, as he was feeling somewhat ill at ease with some of the female outfits. He may have had a point, in some cases. However, after 17 years, nothing surprises me.

There were a few "Christ on a bike" moments, and a few times I did have to avert my eyes, but... I'm an old fart, who am I to judge fashion.

He did ask me several times "how can you not react at all?". Simple answer, I've known them since they were new, I've known their siblings, I have children of my own, and quite honestly, I've seen far worse. My job is to keep them safe and do my job.

I got a few comments wearing my jeans, AC/DC T-shirt and leather waistcoat, including one about "not looking bad, for an old man"... Cheeky sods..

Oh non uniform days are horrendous sometimes.

The school I am involved with used to have it on sports day as the kids would be more comfortable on the school field.

That all ended the year of the super short shorts, where a whole load of year 9 and 10 girls arrived with bum cheek on show and teeny tiny tops with acres of midriff and cleavage on show.

They wear PE kit on sports day now, and there is an appropriateness rule for non uniform.

BoneyBack as I said in my last post, schools may well have official dress codes, but these are never mentioned: never mentioned, as in not once, ever.

I and my nephews and niece and many many friends' kids went (and go) to school in the US and this is NOT an issue. No one mentions what kids are wearing. No one is aware of dress codes.

The same is true in much of Europe. Schools do not get involved in policing what kids wear.

Of course, I am sure that a google search would turn up the odd dress code regulation, or person being told not to wear a racist slogan or something. In general this is not an issue in many other countries.

I agree that girls should be free to wear whatever they like, but likewise, male and female teachers shouldn't have to get an eyeful of pubescent gusset every time they raise their gaze.

Maybe the letter was worded badly, but there's a time and place for expressing yourself, and perhaps double maths isn't it.

There are dress codes in the states, you hear stories about kids being sent home from school all the time.

I agree that we shouldn't actually have uniform, but one of the biggest backers of uniform are PARENTS.

I've said this in other threads danny

That I find it really hard to believe any of the arguments for uniform. Especially the "levelling" nonsense. Only an idiot would believe that spending best part if 400 quid (and yes they can and do cost that much in some places) on uniform which can only be worn at school and will need replacing the second it's lost or damaged whereas you could do without a t shirt or pair of jeans til you could afford a new pair, would level anything. It's just making people who don't have money spend out that money they don't have. They still have to buy clothes for home on top....

The true reason I believe is basic snobbery. People don't want to buy a nice house in a nice area to go to a good school only to look exactly like the kids from the school down the road which has the bad reputation .

claraschu
as I said in my last post, schools may well have official dress codes, but these are never mentioned: never mentioned, as in not once, ever.

Yet they are there and they have been mentioned otherwise children wouldn't have been sent home from school or the prom for wearing inappropriate clothing.

Or maybe the children don't go against the rules
Or maybe the parents enforce the rules

I (and colleagues) have never worked in a school that doesn't have some sort of dress code. (for pupils and teachers)

You also can't judge going by the odd mufti day. Novelty would soon wear off. And kids would just wear jeans and tops like everywhere else.

I have no idea why people tho k everyone would be turning I to blithering idiots stood by their wardrobe in a flap over what to wear. They manage it at weekends and holidays after all. It would be habit very quickly.

Gileswithachainsaw

We recently had a consultation with parents about uniform, the overwhelming response was to keep it.

the parents also voted for a summer uniform option (albeit a polo shirt instead of shirt and tie)

and voted against a blazer.

We went with the parents views. Whether it is snobbery or not it is what they wanted.

Yeah well we all know photo of a kid in jeans and a t shirt by the front door doesn't say "look my kids off to the local grammar school/sought after comp" does it.

There's also a cultural thing regarding it though isn't there. Of course there's the snob element too, but there are too many things involved with people wanting kids to wear uniform to say its the major influence.

Two of the most sought after comps have no uniform though, Cherwell in Oxford and Fortismere in London.

Fortismere has never had a uniform ever, and is sought after not so much for how good the school is, but where the school is.

The other one I don't know about.