Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

Iagree that short skirts are not appropriate for the environment they are in, however this message that they can control what the boys do by modifying their behaviour is what is giving me the rage.

But they aren't asking them to modify their behaviour other than to wear longer uniform skirts.

I have a hard time with this question: I agree with the principal that girls and women should be free to wear what they like without taking into account the feelings of men.

However... (Splinters on bum from the fence I'm sitting on) I am not sure this is a sexist issue. It applies to girls in this context because they are the ones wearing skirts that are too short but I am pretty confident the school would put into place a a similar rule if the boys were turning up in skimpy shorts that showed their bottoms or underwear. Actually I think if that were happening, the parents of girls would be complaining that their daughters shouldn't have to learn in an environment where boys were intimidating them by walking around with bits of their bum on show.

So, I dunno. I think school uniform should be roughly in line with normal business wear. No skirts so short they show pants, no cleavage, no unbuttoned shirts on boys.

I find it very hard to believe that any senior management team, or teachers even, would stand in front of a group of teenage girls and say those words out loud.

Even if they thought it, they wouldn't be stupid enough to say it given how switched on everyone is these days. They know it would be all over social media in an instant.

Do the school make any money from the sales by any chance

They think highly of their staff don't they? Surely by the mere fact of they are children should ensure that most normal people would not be having any kind of inappropriate uncomfortable thoughts....

I support fully the notion that women have a right to dress as they please and that how they dress should not affect how assaults or attacks are perceived but these aren't women, they are children. Children by their very nature are still learning and it's a schools job to educate. The girls and boys have newly developed urges and interests that are best kept outside the school environment. I think the message the skirts are too short and it encourages boys to stare up them in an adolescent way isn't entirely inappropriate. Miniskirts were created to encourage boys/men to stare at girls legs. Young male teachers run the risk of inappropriate accusations and career limitations if a girl says "Sir was looking up my skirt" but if it's flaunted in front of him as he goes up a staircase what is he meant to do? Fall over from looking away?
Girls need to learn that whilst it is their right to dress as they wish, some forms of dress do attract male attention and they may need to ensure they can cope with that. A beautiful young thing in a thong and triangle bikini is going to get more looks and comments than a rounded middle aged women in a swim dress. Most beautiful young things wear the bikini for that very reason.

'Girls need to learn to dress appropriately for their environment. Very short skirts are not appropriate for school any more than they are in a workplace. There is no reason for them to be wearing such short skirts and I think it is entirely appropriate that they have been told to revert to the proper uniform.'

PP put this well. They should have been told this. However, to ask them to change to police the the feelings and behaviour of men is shocking, particularly the adult men.

Who said they are having sexual thoughts, as a woman I find it inappropriate, and I don't have sexual thoughts, I'd also find a man walking around in skimpy shorts ins appropriate also in a school setting.

Sometimes I dispair, men can find female behaviours inappriopriate with sexualising it.

I find it pretty sad my boys are growing up in a world like this.

Had a phonecall along same lines last year. I totally see both sides. Why should women have to modify what they wear ...? However, dd's skirt was just covering her bottom and she wore thus without tights. I had questioned her and got eye rolling so was relieved school backed my opinion. She got a mid thigh skirt and everone was happy. she now wears the tightest trousers ...

"Sammy, no only is your skirt too short, your thong is too tight and I can see your shaven labia." We have staff meetings about how to say this subtly. The conclusion, it is not possible for a male teacher to say it. Your DD's school obviously has a Sammy.

Why are skirts still part of school uniform? Just make the uniform as unisex as possible and these problems don't even arise in the first place.

It is a shame that the school have had to point this out. The parents should have stuck to the proper uniform in the first place.

To be fair to the parents, the girls could be folding up the waistband of their skirts once they leave the house.

Surely by the mere fact of they are children should ensure that most normal people would not be having any kind of inappropriate uncomfortable thoughts....

There is a vast difference between feeling uncomfortable and having inappropriate thoughts.

Giles, I don't think the school is saying the male teachers have inappropriate urges towards the girls. It's fair enough that a male teacher is especially uncomfortable getting an accidental glimpse - they will be constantly worried that someone will accuse them of looking.

I'm a female teacher and I find it really uncomfortable when my students are dressed inappropriately. Not because I have any nefarious interest in them, just because it's not nice to be put in the position of working with someone who has more on show than you'd want to see. It feels like you're accidentally intruding on their privacy and I'd far rather they saved the plunging necklines and mini skirts for elsewhere.

I'm sure the poor teachers manage just fine in other areas of their lives when they see short skirts. Is it just at work they lose the ability to control their eyes?

It truly is awful what some of the girls wear. So high and tight its like a belt. I have seen boys peering up the skirts of the girls walking upstairs or on a higher level. I think that actually the girls need to know what the boys are doing. As a kid I'd have been horrified to know the boys were peering up at my knickers. Most of the girls don't actually realise this, they wear short skirts as its fashion and to fit in with the other girls and look cool.

I think that would make it worse tbh.

Nothing worse than oversized shapeless clothes like school uniform.

I think there are some girls who do want to attract looks - the 'populars' in dd's school. The rest of them are just not wanting to be seen as uncool and teacher's pets. I do agree girls shouldn't have to adjust their behaviour because it's making the boys/teachers uncomfortable but I think asking for work appropriate choices to be made is fine.
Dd's skirt is shorter than I'm entirely happy with but school have declared it as fine btw. It's actually hard to buy skirts which are long enough but then not enormous on the waist.

Presumably the boys have to wear uniform as well, if the rule is skirts of a certain length then that is the rule. No need to go into reasons or justify it just tell them to stick to the rule.

Personally I wouldn't want my daughter going to school in a skirt that allowed all and sundry to view her backside but then she is a teacher not a student so maybe that makes a difference?

to ask them to change to police the the feelings and behaviour of men is shocking

Even when affecting the feelings/behaviour of the men is probably why they are wearing the skirts in the first place?

I have teen boys and a pre-teen DD so I am seeing this from both sides.

It's frustrating when schools have to continually remind parents of the uniform policy.
We often get letters reminding about piercings/make up/shoes etc.

It's all there on the uniform sheet what is and isn't allowed but there's always a few that think it doesn't apply to them for some reason.

Can't they just say 'noone wants to see your underwear, it's underwear, lets keep it that way'.
It's blunt, but less laying blame all over (and less likely to encourage any teen thinking they want to attract the attention of boys/ girls/ teachers I certainly had a handful of friends who did dress to get a second look.).
Same for boys with their trousers round their arse and boxers higher than their waists. I don’t want to see that either. It's not distracting but again, they're pants. If I wanted to see pants I wouldn't be walking down the street in the day.

A girl going upstairs in front of them who is wearing a skirt so short that the boys can see their knickers is wearing an inappropriate outfit for school.

This. Like pp said, I'm not sure this is a sexist issue - if it was boys dressed inappropriately the school would also raise it. Freedom of expression and wearing / doing what you want is not a moral priority that automatically trumps every other consideration. One of the important aims of school is preparation to succeed in the workplace and being suitably presentable is a part of that.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that it's making the male teachers uncomfortable. If I was faced with teenage girls accidentally flashing their knickers on a regular basis I would feel uncomfortable too, and I'm a middle aged woman!

Why are you assuming it's because they are trying to attract men.

Is it not possible for a girl to do something because she likes to without it needing to be "for" somebody.

I teach in a primary school where we frequently have work experience students from local schools. They are clearly told that we expect smart dress, appropriate for work. They are given the chance to see what we wear in order to give an idea.

Almost every year we have to ask at least one student to reconsider what they are wearing as the skirts or tops are too revealing. A male member of staff complained that he felt very uncomfortable being confronted by a 15 year old's thong when she leaned over a desk. He wasn't leering- the complete opposite, he really didn't want to see her bottom.

If this is also happening in school I think it needs to be addressed. Yes, women of all ages need to be able to wear what they want in their own time. No, this should not be at the expense of everyone else's comfort. I'd tell DS that tight Lycra shorts are not appropriate for school for the same reason- no-one needs an eyeful of that either.