Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

[Exercisejunkieforlife]

My DD is 15, yesterday all the girls were kept behind in assembly and told they must wear skirts from the official uniform shop.
I have no problem with this as this is where we get DDs skirts, my problem is with the reasons given.

They were told that it distracts the boys when the girls walk up the stairs and makes the male teachers feel uncomfortable.

AIBU to think that the girls should not have to modify their behaviour / what they wear so the 'boys' don't look up their skirts and that the male teachers are responsible for their own feelings. ?

My dd is at a middle school (yr 5 to yr 8). Girls have been told they must not wear black (or any colour other than white) bras or crop tops under their shirts as it is distracting, and her friend was made to sit out PE because she only had a black crop top under her PE shirt. Distracting for whom??? I really strongly think that if the school can't prevent the boys or male teaching staff staring through the shirt of a 13 year old girl then they have a major safeguarding issue. Especially considering that even a white bra will show a bra shape through a white school blouse. I also wonder how this rule would translate to non-white students, as obviously a white crop top on an Afro-Caribbean skin tone would show through far more dramatically than a black one.

It's made my dd openly self conscious for the first time at school and I think it's awful.

I don't think boys school trousers tend to be of the saggy halfway down arse variety
We had this at school for years. It's not the trousers, it's how they wear them. For a while it was 'bum completely out'. Yes, we did do what we could to make them cover up, just as we would with girls.
The boys thought the girls would find them sexy like that. I know, because I asked them why they did it.

I walked up the stairs to my classroom last week and got an eyeful of bottom with a tiny thong. It was a year 7 girl. I was able (as a female teacher) to ask her to pull her skirt down.
I also sit in front of a class and see knickers in a daily basis as kids sit comfortable (often cross legged on chairs). Sometimes a lot more than knickers.
A girl in my class was messing on the way out of class and kind of scissored over the desk - displaying everything. And I mean everything. Believe you me the teenage boys were horrified - not aroused.
I have been asked by male members of staff to speak to Girls on their behalf as they felt they couldn't.

Hey dh/ds apparently you should just shut up and put up, your feelings don't matter and if they do, you will be accused of being a sexual predator

harderandharder2breathe:

It is their problem if their clothes are breaking the uniform code.

I get this whole argument - girls should be able to wear what they like etc. and to some extent I have sympathy for the view that it isn't the girl's fault if someone is distracted by her body. I am not suggesting they should all wear trousers or burkas. BUT when there is a perfectly reasonable uniform code in place which protects anyone who might be accused of trying to look at the girls inappropriately, and the girls are breaching it to the effect that no-one can help seeing their underwear, I would say it becomes their problem.

The school are just requesting girls stick to the school uniform skirt.

They're not, though. If they were just requesting that, that's what they'd have said. They're also giving the girls a reason why they need to do it, other than 'because it's the rules and you need to comply with that'. If you think it was justified to say that to them, that's one thing, but the OP has been very clear that the girls were not just requested to stick to the school uniform skirt.

Believe you me the teenage boys were horrified - not aroused.

Couldn't help a giggle then!

No, this is just not acceptable. No-one should be forced to look at someone else's genitals just to access their education.

The school might mean that male staff might be uncomfortable broaching the subject to the girls and not them being distracted. I had to tell a girl - one of 5 female teachers in a week- that a young girl`s skirt was too short as it just skimmed her bum.

Always with the 'teenage boys are full of hormones' line... I hate that. Boys: not in control, not responsible, slaves to their 'hormones' (how do they cope when they go anywhere that it's school?)

Nobody seems to suggest that girls are 'pumped full' of hormones. Their hormones make them cry and be unreasonable, sometimes, but they never legitimate bad behaviour.

I also sit in front of a class and see knickers in a daily basis as kids sit comfortable (often cross legged on chairs). Sometimes a lot more than knickers.

Which is why I'm for trousers.

Skirts restrict movement (well, in the sense that climbing a tree, sitting cross legged, playing a somewhat "rowdy" game of football etc isn't possible. Or where the girls have to constantly make sure that the skirt doesn't flap up etc.)
Trousers are simply more practical.

ElisavetaFartsonira:

You're giving me a bit of a headache.

If we don't know that the boys need to have the uniform code reiterated (as nothing like this is mentioned in the OP's post) what on earth are you complaining about? If there was a double standard on display I would agree with you, but so far all we know is that the school felt it necessary to speak to the girls but not the boys.

Plus, there is nothing wrong with telling them that their breaches of the uniform code are having a negative effect on the boys. The code is there to make sure everyone can get on and learn, so if one group is at risk of not being able to do that because of the actions of another group, telling them so is just telling the truth.

Why don't they just change the uniform to trousers ffs

Teenage boys are bound to look if girls skirts are so short they are showing their knickers

Boys will be boys, eh?

Amazing how I managed to control myself around girls in short skirts when I was at school. Those poor boys with their wandering eyes and desperately short attention span. If they're so easily distracted, maybe they should see someone about their inattentiveness?

I'm fairly sure I have read this thread with the exact same wording at least twice before on here. Someone better than me at searching can probably find the previous threads.

I agree with what was said by a pp, why are skirts part of school uniform at all? Why does no one question this?
Women and girls don't have to wear skirts at all, trousers and shorts are far more practical for school, for both boys and girls.

The code is there to make sure everyone can get on and learn, so if one group is at risk of not being able to do that because of the actions of another group

The boys are 'at risk' of nothing other than making poor decisions about whether to get on and learn.

Makes me think of the thing where good girls seated next to naughty boys to civilize them. And then girls' clothes apparently the chief reason boys can't learn. Girls aren't there to make boys feel comfortable, or help them learn.

(plus, all very heteronormative!)

tinytemper66:

And actually, if I'm honest. I wouldn't blame a male teacher even for feeling distracted by a teenage girl (say, 15) flashing her knickers at him in class. Obviously he should be professional and ignore it and he shouldn't be in any way 'unable to control himself' (ridiculous phrase anyway) but the reality is that he will have been exposed all his life to images of young women in underwear that are overtly and deliberately sexual: underwear adverts, music videos, films, magazines and yes, probably pornography. It is not fair to expect him to be able to compartmentalise to the extent that he doesn't even notice a female crotch six feet away from him. Coming to work shouldn't be a test to see if you're a pervert. No wonder they feel uncomfortable.

What about when the male teachers go on holiday, and sit on a beach anywhere hot? How do they control their massive boners, and their raging pumping hormones then? When they can see a lot more than some 60-deniered thigh?

Yet another "nothing sexist here folks, move along, nothing to see here" thread!

There is nothing sexist about telling girls to wear appropriate clothes for a workplace, or in enforcing a uniform.

There is a lot sexist in telling them that they should do this specifically because they are being distracting to boys and male teachers. Because women and girls are not responsible for how men and boys feel or behave. And saying that they are is a dangerous lesson to teach.

I'm fairly sure if there was a fashion for the boys, which involved very short shorts & an occasional flash of ball sack, I'd be distracted too. Nothing to do with perving, it's just not appropriate. Not all men or boys are rampant perverts.

Totally agree with CoolJazz re uniforms that consisted of comfy trousers for both girls and boys. I'd have no issue with sports kit TBH - nice tracksuits for both.

Meanwhile, I totally agree that the girls should not have been told they were a distraction, simply that their uniforms did not meet the dress code. Perhaps both girls and boys should have been told to smarten up in the name of school image or something? Or individual offenders could have been sent home with a note? But in the scenario the OP has described all the girls were given a clear message that they are a distraction to boys.

I equally think that if the dear boys have been distracted they need to be given some education in making sure they modify their behaviour to prevent them being distracted.

Meanwhile - as for the 'poor teenage boys are just a mess of hormones and can't help themselves' this just smacks of old sexist stereotypes. Adolescent girls also have hormones and are thinking about sex, but they have to exercise restraint because of the boys and are not excused for their behaviour!

Teenage boys are bound to look if girls skirts are so short they are showing their knickers

Boys will be boys, eh?

And girls will be girls then!

Because DN was laughing the other day that her friend had a fake tattoo on her arse!

Everyone will look at someone's arse hanging out!

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

I think that is incredibly unfair. As I say in another post, coming to work or going to school shouldn't be testing in this sense - heterosexual boys will be distracted by female nudity and that is completely normal. Provided they aren't going out of their way to see the girls' knickers, how can they be blamed if seeing them affects them emotionally and physically? How is this in any way their fault?

Teenage girls are not responsible for the feelings of boys, and certainly not male teachers - there was no need for any comment about them. Fair enough for the school to insist on a reasonable uniform that everyone has to comply with - though the sole-supplier system is often a rip-off , and it would be fairer to allow parents to buy compliant uniform from other suppliers.

That said, a PP could be right about schools getting a cut from the uniform supplier. The majority of schools face absolutely brutal budget cuts over the next few years, and Headteachers are desperately trying to minimise the effects on class sizes/ cutting non-core provision- it's equivalent to searching for pennies down the back of the sofa.

While I am uncomfortable with telling women they should cover up so that poor men are not forced to ogle them, I do think that at 15 they should be capable of understanding the basics of acceptable dress for a business and professional environment, and too much flesh on display from either sex is distracting and not ideal. It's a learning and working environment, not a beach or a night club. I wouldn't want to look at boys wearing muscle vests and showing off their nipples and armpit hair either. It's just not the appropriate place for it.

If one of the girls in a short skirt accused a teacher or a male pupil of deliberately trying to look up it as she went up the stairs it would be very difficult for him to prove otherwise, which is rather unfair considering that he may not have had much of a choice if he was directly behind her and a fews stairs down.

It's also extremely difficult to sit down in a short skirt or cross and uncross your legs without it riding up and possibly giving everyone a good view of your knickers. It isn't really fair or realistic to put the onus on male teachers and pupils to make sure they don't see it.