to wonder why the fuss about Easter and the national trust?

[Believeitornot]

Theresa May has been quoted as being "furious" about the national trust removing easter from their egg hunts. Because she's the daughter of a vicar and a NT member

Now I had a look at the national trust poster and it clearly says Easter in big letters. They've just called the activities "egg hunts" but it's very clear it's happening at Easter.

AIBU to think she's massively over reacting over a non issue and might well be reminded that Easter was originally a pagan festival

The C of E must be blind if it can't see the privileged position it holds in the UK. And as for the PM - can't she see the privilege and the platform the Church has?

Some branches are dying. Mine is on the up. Not sure how Theresa May would feel about mine though.

I do think that keeping some kind of secular religion going in order to preserve the cultural element is important though. Historically we were Christian (Catholic root), would be a shame to lose our cultural root along with religion, if that's the way it goes. Chocolate is probably going to be the way to do that, unfortunately. I can see the health argument, but I see the Easter bunny as so separate from Pascha I'm not too bothered about that.

The irony is that there are far more Easter egg hunts now than there were when I was a child, and the national trust and similar organisations are far more engaged in family inclusive events than they were 20-30 years ago.

Before social media and forums like mumsnet, nobody talked to strangers about their Easter traditions, nobody shared their elf on a shelf pictures on Facebook and if people made up Christmas Eve hampers or bought Christmas pyjamas they didn't share it with the rest of the world. There was no Pinterest to share your advent count down activities or Christmas crafts and the only way people got to see your Christmas tree was if they visited your house.

My mum never had to make me an Easter bonnet, and the most she had to do at christmas was turn up for the carol service. No Christmas jumpers, craft fairs or other Christmas related faffery.

People might or might not be going to church, but the more secular side of Christmas and Easter is alive and well.

Oh yes the run up to Christmas at school is an ordeal where the children are constantly whipped up with reminders about Father Christmas...I wish every child in the world really did get one present.

I don't think it's hyperbolic jass, my teenage nephews had no clue what lent was. Absolutely none. My dcs' school has no Christian religious content whatsoever because of the number of intolerant anti Christian parents that complain of any religious teaching.

I'm sure a lot of people thing the secularisation of schools is all good, as I said I don't.

I don't think it's hyperbolic jass, my teenage nephews had no clue what lent was. Absolutely none.

That implies that his family aren't religious and they don't celebrate pancake day, or if they do they don't ever discuss the reasons for pancake day.

Or more likely, he has been told about lent but he wasn't interested and forgot.

Many children claim ignorance of many things. (With my daughter it's usually maths).

my teenage nephews had no clue what lent was. Absolutely none.

Are they Christian? If not, why is not knowing about Lent a problem? And how is that linked to bizarre the idea that in ten years' time we will all celebrate Cadbury's Sunday, thanks to a sponsorship deal that enables the National Trust to carry out activities that have 'Easter' emblazoned all over them, and Cadbury's own materials have Easter featuring prominently. Do you honestly think Cadbury has a conspiracy to remove the external impetus for people to buy vast amounts of their products? Independent external events that push your product are the grail of product marketing.

My dcs' school has no Christian religious content whatsoever because of the number of intolerant anti Christian parents that complain of any religious teaching.

Are you saying RE is not taught? That is a huge problem. Are you in England?

Or are you talking about no collective worship in schools or religious instruction (as distinct from education), which makes perfect sense in a school with people of many faiths and none, by declining to promote one deity over others and none? Why is it intolerant or 'anti-Christian' for parents to ask for a level playing field, rather than one religion getting special treatment? Though in England, not doing so would be against the law...

I'm sure a lot of people thing the secularisation of schools is all good, as I said I don't.

Well, no, not if you want the state to promote your faith to children, regardless of whether they are of that faith, and at the expense of other faiths and none. I can see how losing your special treatment in the education system might rankle, particularly if it means you have to do more of the heavy lifting of indoctrinating your children yourself, rather than asking taxpayers to do it for you.

my teenage nephews had no clue what lent was. Absolutely none. My dcs' school has no Christian religious content whatsoever because of the number of intolerant anti Christian parents that complain of any religious teaching

In England and Wales, religious education is compulsory. So it's surprising and against the law if schools don't teach it.

They may or may not mention Lent.

My knowledge of Lent is giving something up for Easter.

I wonder how many Christians go 'full Lent'.

"The Christian churches that observe Lent in the 21st century (and not all do significantly) use it as a time for prayer and penance. Only a small number of people today fast for the whole of Lent, although some maintain the practice on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. It is more common these days for believers to surrender a particular vice such as favourite foods or smoking. Whatever the sacrifice it is a reflection of Jesus' deprivation in the wilderness and a test of self-discipline"

I think that if we want our children to know about things like Lent, it is up to us to teach them. You can't blame their schools for that, and you certainly can't blame the National Trust!

m.facebook.com/nationaltrustni/posts/10152005842391032

Although the national trust did mark shrove Tuesday on their Facebook page.

Does it matter of teenagers don't know what Lent is?

It may matter if a Christian teenager doesn't know what Lent is - given it's important to Christians.

But does it matter if a non Christian teenager doesn't know what Lent is?

How long does it take to chat about the origins of Lent while you're stuffing down a pancake? Your nephews parents could have done that in any one of the 13+ years they were alive, but clearly it wasn't that important to them. If you want your childen to know about Christianity, take them to church. Many have a childrens service where they do bible stories. Schools have enough to do.

I firmly believe children should be taught about religion, religious customs such as Great Lent etc. That way they get to make their own minds up. My parents are atheists, I have more or less decided I'm going to convert officially to my 'weird' branch of Christianity at this point. Haven't broached that one with them yet because it's not going to be a fun conversation, and right now I'm still exploring my own relationship with God after a very, very secular upbringing. I don't see that as any different than someone growing up in a religious family and rejecting it. Everyone has the right to make their own decision regarding what they believe in, and I'm not saying children should be taught about Lent to convert them/convince them it's a load of rubbish/whatever hidden agenda. But they absolutely should be presented the facts about various different religions so they can make up their own minds.

On reflection, that NT post is one of the few 'commercial/promotional' instances I've seen of Shrove Tuesday being referred to as that, rather than solely as 'pancake day' in my 12 years living in Britain.

Perhaps Christians should be thanking them?

But they absolutely should be presented the facts about various different religions so they can make up their own minds.

I totally agree - most do. In England, RE is part of the national curriculum.

Quite different from religious instruction or collective worship, though, which is all about the promotion of one faith as fact.

Oh, I completely agree. Interestingly, the branches of Christianity that tried to convert me were not the ones I ever seriously considered.

I do think a teenager brought up in a historically and culturally Christian country with no idea about one of the most important Christian practices is rather shocking. Not saying that they should be told about it in a 'this is truth' way, but they should at least have an awareness of why Christians practice lent.

How long does it take to chat about the origins of Lent while you're stuffing down a pancake

Absolutely.

We live in a more secular society than ever so none of this is surprising ( or worrying imo).

I do think a teenager brought up in a historically and culturally Christian country with no idea about one of the most important Christian practices is rather shocking

I wonder how many people of all ages could explain in detail why we have Lent?

I find it quite surprising that a teenager has never heard of Lent. Especially one with an aunt who feels so passionately about Christianity.

I do think that learning about Christianity is important for children, as is learning about other religions in school. I think children should be taught what Lent is, what the 5 pillars of Islam are, what Yom Kippur is, etc etc.
Whether or not it sinks in I guess depends on the teacher, and how much attention the pupils pay, but a very basic understanding of the religions that children are likely to encounter in life is important for a tolerant society.

I'm agnostic at best squirmy, I've dropped in and out of church attendance for this reason & I wouldn't talk to anyone about it in RL for fear of being told I've got an imaginary friend etc. My main problem is the abandonment of our traditions. We've never had separation of church and state in Britain, and we're bringing up a generation of kids that can't even sing a hymn as they don't know the words and it is being replaced with being taught about all religions everywhere in a very superficial and meaningless way.

It's obvious a lot of people do prefer this.

My nephews are in England, they do indeed go to bad schools and they honestly had no idea what Lent is, which is why I don't feel it's hyperbole whatsoever. I'll ask them to tell me the Easter story and report back...

for the people of the opinion that their parents should teach them or take them to church - that's clearly a view a lot of people hold but it's not how it has traditionally been done in Britain and whilst schools have a lot to do, parents also have a lot to do (particularly single parents as my sister is), and it has traditionally been part of the school remit.

My daughter has celebrated festivals from several world religions (which I'm all for) but we've sat through 2 miserable 'Christmas' carol services where there was no, and I mean no, mention of God or Jesus's birth whatsoever, no traditional carols, no Christmas story being told and an over-emphasis on Father Christmas - another 'made up' thing in an attempt to still be jolly. The plays both years have been about ice caps melting etc.

I'm sure you'll say their school isn't representative but if you've complained to your kids' schools about any Christian teaching or visits to some kind of Christian church but not complained about them being taught about other religions then I'd like to know why particularly.

My personal view is that we're annihilating our ability to understand our own history because of adult parents wanting to assert they don't believe in any God.

I wouldn't in any way argue that Christian tradition hasn't changed or splintered, or hasn't co-opted pagan rituals and means different things to different groups, I merely feel it ought to be properly taught in school and I see no evidence that it is being from my nuclear or extended family's experience.

thanks for being tolerant of one not particularly strongly identified Christian - to be honest I dreaded checking back on this thread in case I had a lot of nasty comments. Pointing out my nephews' school isn't particularly good is quite accurate!

My nephews are in England, they do indeed go to bad schools and they honestly had no idea what Lent is, which is why I don't feel it's hyperbole whatsoever.

If a school isn't teaching the national curriculum then it's an absolutely terrible school and should be reported to Ofsted.

As I've said I'm a huge supporter of religious education - treating all faiths and none equally - but not of schools promoting one above all others as primary or the 'right' one or getting into the field of religious instruction. That is both divisive and incredibly arrogant.