Having food/drink policed whilst pregnant

[ForTheSakeOfFuck]

About three weeks ago, buying a full English takeout for OH...
Cook: "How do you want your eggs?"
Me: "Runny please."
Cook: "Ooooh... you know you shouldn't have runny eggs whilst pregnant. I'll fry it till it's hard." vanishes back into kitchen before I can stop her

Last week, in a pub garden with me, SIL, and OH...
Waiting staff: "What drinks do you want?"
Me: "Two white wines and a coke please."
waiting person returns with drinks
Waiting staff, trying to figure out who to give the drinks to, obviously concludes the wines are for me and SIL: "Ummm... did you want something else? I mean because... you know..."
Me: slightly confused stare since I hadn't twigged yet
Waiting staff: "Is the wine for you?"
Me: "No. It's for MIL else who's arriving imminently. I have a bottle of water in my bag."
Waiting staff: "Oh phew! For a minute there I thought you were going to drink whilst pregnant!" chuckles her way back inside

Today, in Spar, buying my lunch, along with three high-protein peanut bar snack things which actually, for once, are for me, and I've checked with the obstetrician that it's okay for me to eat these since I'm otherwise low on protein in my diet...
Checkout woman, looking at me, very deliberately at my bump, and then at the nutritional content on the bars, literally reading the guidance on there: "Are you allowed to eat these?? I don't think these are okay during pregnancy."
Me in a pretty flat, unimpressed voice: "Are you an obstetrician?"
Checkout woman: "... A what?"
Me: "A specialist in fetal development."
Checkout woman: "... Er... no...?"
awkward silence whilst she scans, I pay, and leave

Sat here, now, chomping on a maple and peanut bar, I feel like a bit of an arsehole in retrospect. So... WIBU to get a bit shirty with the checkout woman?

I'm not entirely sure those CO2 test things work tbh. A few years back I attended one of the stop smoking clinics and my reading on that machine was really low...can't remember what it was now but the person doing my appointment didn't believe I was smoking 10 a day?1 I had just had a ciggie before going into the appointment too. Not sure how on earth that happened

ElisavetaFartsonira I don't know how many times or different ways I can say that if informed, non-judgmental consent is not happening around this test then that is a problem that needs sorting.

How would you reduce smoking among pregnant women? You're full of objections to this test but have proposed no solutions to the massive health impact of smoking on women and babies.

GreenHills you scare the fuck out of me. Remind me to NEVER piss you off!

As I said in my last thread pencils, I have no objections to paying pregnant smokers to quit.

But even if I didn't have a better suggestion, that still wouldn't mean the current scenario where women are misled to try and reduce stigma is acceptable. Objections to the status quo would still be 100% valid. Because informed consent is not some nice to have thing, that we can dispense with if uninformed consent would be more useful. And I note that you've come up with absolutely no solutions as to how informed consent alongside de-stigmatisation can be achieved.

And you can say you support informed consent all you want, but the other things you say alongside it are starting to make it difficult to take those claims in good faith. Minimising concerns as how very dare you-ing, making it very clear that your ideal world would be if we all just got over ourselves and did what we were told (ie we're the problem) airy comments about PALS with no understanding of the fact that women who can successfully identify the need for and access PALS are least likely to be the ones being pressured and misled. These things are hard to reconcile with a desire for genuinely informed consent.

But the studies show that smoking was reduced

No they haven't. To do that they would need to compare smoking rates in the areas that CO testin with areas where they didn't and they would have to test all pregnant women (or assume those who refuse are smokers). That hasn't happened as far as I know.

How would you reduce smoking among pregnant women? You're full of objections to this test but have proposed no solutions to the massive health impact of smoking on women and babies.

Nobody objects to the test per se. They object to the fact that the test isn't being done with informed consent (i.e. the true purpose of the test is being hidden). In any other health area it would be deemed very unacceptable to do this nowadays.

Roomster the studies compare referral and quit rates before intervention with referral and quit rates after intervention. After intervention, referral rates increased and smoking was reduced.

Comparison between different areas would introduce a whole host of other variables. It is well known that smoking rates vary widely between different demographics.

ElisavetaFartsonira - And I note that you've come up with absolutely no solutions as to how informed consent alongside de-stigmatisation can be achieved.
MW should ensure pg women are fully informed about the test and are allowed to refuse without any pressure. It's not hard.

It is so annoying. There's no need.

I think the McDonald's milkshakes and ice creams are still a no go, only because my daughter who has had a heart transplant is on a pregnancy diet lol runny eggs can actually affect her but it's easier for them to say everything you got told you couldn't eat in pregnancy she can't have. The milkshakes and ice cream from McDonald's are still on that list as they don't clean the machines often enough for someone with no immune system. I had them while pregnant though, I never listened to the guidelines and my first came out perfectly fine and I did the same with my second and she came out needing a new heart, if it's going to happen it's going to happen, I don't think certain foods contribute to anything.

MW should ensure pg women are fully informed about the test and are allowed to refuse without any pressure. It's not hard.

How though, while also de-stigmatising the test and pregnant smokers generally?

I can see that it's easy to ensure women are fully informed about the test, so any consent or refusal will be legitimate. That part's easy. I can see that it's possible not to pressurise women at all. I can also see how it's easy to de-stigmatise the test, by misleading women about the primary purpose. But balancing all three? That seems a lot more difficult. And I haven't heard any ideas from anyone about how this can be achieved.

Roomster the studies compare referral and quit rates before intervention with referral and quit rates after intervention. After intervention, referral rates increased and smoking was reduced.

They can obviously measure the referral rates before and after the intervention but I don't see how they could have accurately measured the quit rates of all pregnant women both before and after. To do this they would have to done CO tests of all pregnant women (not just the referred ones) which they weren't doing before the intervention. Therefore they have just looked at the number of referrals and the proportion of those who said that they quit once they were referred.

Comparison between different areas would introduce a whole host of other variables. It is well known that smoking rates vary widely between different demographics.

Whether they could do it is not the point. The point is whether we should believe the evidence. Having said that, they could have compared the change in quit rates over the same time period with an area with similar demographics and adjusted the data for differences in baseline characteristics.

MW should ensure pg women are fully informed about the test and are allowed to refuse without any pressure. It's not hard.

The study you have linked to specifically states that all women should be referred unless they "spontaneously" refuse a referral which strongly implies they were not specifically told they were allowed refuse. That actually is one of the main differences between the "opt in" and "opt out" (apart from the CO testing to check whether women are lying of course).

I worked in a bar, many years ago. A woman came up and told me she had just found out she was pregnant. She then ordered two double vodkas.

I gave them to her. Wouldn't have occurred to me not to. She was a grown woman and it wasn't up to me to tell her what to do. Far too many people are far to keen to dictate to women what they should and shouldn't be doing with their bodies. It's not the place of some total stranger in a shop/bar/restaurant to make these decisions.

On a separate note, takeaway full English?! That sounds amazing. Wish somewhere did that round here...

squiz I'm in the UK and most certainly DO drink root beer. I got a taste for it on holiday in the States when I was 12 though.