To think Young Carers should NOT exist and wonder why we are accepting this?

[OopsDearyMe]

I was thinking about my own situation and after seeing the comic relief story about the young carers group. It got me thinking, Why is no one in uproar that children are doing the jobs of social care workers.

If you are elderly and need help, you receive a care package and a carer assigned to you, who visits the home and helps take care of you, yes ? As it should be!

Then why if you become disabled at a younger age, do you not get the same?

Children who work, do so under strict guidelines, if you made your child do the things young carers do, as an able bodied person, you would be seeing social services pretty soon..

So why are we and the government ignoring the fact that thousands of children are doing the jobs an adult carer should be doing?

AIBU to think this is all wrong!

I am not saying the money should not have gone to the charities helping young carers , as I know they do a really important job. But I would prefer the money paid for a carer for the adult, thus preventing any child from becoming a carer in the first place.

NB: I Understand that currently we haven't got enough carers for the elderly let alone anyone else, which is why this happens, But surely this is because the government isn't being pushed to make changes. People seem to say"Oh how sad" and move on..

The lack of empathy on this thread is shocking.

Erm, wow.

First and foremost, no one is judging the children in these situations. I also think we have different ideas of what the word judgement means. To me, it means I look at the situation i see, with as many facts as I can, and come to a conclusion as to whether I think it is right or wrong to me. There are not other connotations underneath me judging child carers to be in a bad situation - as in, I do not necessarily blame the parents. Already said that, and already said I doubted many young carers are in a situation as a result of a parent knowing full well they will not be able to care for their children. We need to step back and cool off here.

And workngmums, my annoyed face was at your ridiculous username.

Secondly, your post to Rainbows was unnecessarily rude. Thirdly, your entire post is ridiculous. Someone having a differing opinion on you over something does not mean they are "sanctimonious" (your favourite word?) Believe it or not, people who have not gone through something first had can and do still have opinions on the matter. They can look online, they can read the news, they can deduce logically themselves that maybe non adult people should not have adult responsibilities. Does it mean that we don't acknowledge it is mostly not the parents fault? Does it mean we don't acknowledge that these children are the result of a massively flawed and underfunded system? No. But we can still feel that is is wrong.

I think one of the problems on this thread is that people are not understanding some peoples' point of view. It is reasonable, acceptable and pretty logical IMO to say that young carers in principle are a bad thing, it doesn't by proxy mean that you are judging/insulting people who rely on young carers, out of necessity.

We know lots will feel guilty. We know they feel bad and wish it was different. But you don't need to argue that point, we are on the same page here. It still doesn't mean I don't have a problem with young carers. And for me personally, I still feel uncomfortable with people saying "my kids are happy doing it" or trying to make people feel bad for saying they are not okay with it, because they personally have a child helping to look after them.

And Ovaries, have you met every carer? It's fairly well documented and pretty widely acknowledged that having caring responsibilities from a young age has plenty of detrimental effects on the children. From emotional strain to poor school performance.

And Ovaries, have you met every carer? It's fairly well documented and pretty widely acknowledged that having caring responsibilities from a young age has plenty of detrimental effects on the children. From emotional strain to poor school performance.

Of course not, but I also haven't claimed that all of them will or will not suffer "long into adulthood".

Maybe if there was more external support, the consequences wouldn't be that way? Many schools are catastrophically bad at supporting young carers.

Do you really think it's going to do former (or indeed current, as people of all ages use these forums) young carers any good to come onto this thread and see people accusing their parents of abuse?

brasty What do ill and disabled people without children do? You think they cope?! That just goes to show how little knowledge and understanding you have while you sit and pass comment. Some do but many don't. Some people live in the most horrifying situations that would make you weep in horror. Some disabled people come to the attention of environmental health via neighbours because their situation is so poor or the police or the ambulance. If they're "lucky", they'll come to the attention of social services before things hit crisis point but sadly, many don't.

I do feel cynical. Many local councils acknowledged that central govt cuts to the social care budget was harmful and raised council taxes. Guess what people did? Complained and bitched and whined. It's all over various media sources, including social media. I don't think society really does give a shit about about vulnerable people as much as some like to virtual signal on threads like these.

I've been an adult social worker for many years, come across various situations and worked with quite a few young carers. To be honest, I'd estimate that about 1% of young carers actually fully support the parent. Generally, once we are involved, this stops and we work to get the young person back into doing the things they should be.

I agree with you re the external support, as per my previous post.

And of course not,but, forgive if I'm wrong, I don't think anyone is calling it abuse. Abuse to me implies malice. But even if it's uncomfortable to acknowledge, plenty of posters have pointed out how hard it was for them to be carers, and how it has indeed marked their lives. Just because the cause of it is hard for the parents too or out of their control, if they are incapable of caring for their children, then they are incapable. Not all are.

I know this is an emotive subject, but surely we are all in agreement that it's not right or healthy for parents to rely on their children, and so the families in this unfortunate situation need support? And yes we all agree that the support in place is not adequate. It doesn't help with posters accusing anyone who says as much as being unsympathetic of the parents. We are, the truth is that that my concerns lie much stronger with the children in those families.

Well Wayfairing I think that's what most are saying, even if they are arguing about perspective. I think most of us feel that more support needs to be in place for those children, and how many are not flagged to social services etc? That is what I think personally if the problem. Because they shouldn't be in that role for their parent. And even if they are not "fully" supporting the parent, surely that is still not ideal for them, and they deserve the help and support? Sorry if that sounds like I'm being rude/harsh, I just mean I feel like to a young carer, surely any degree of being responsible for the parent is a burden that they shouldn't have to face alone.

Cherries you haven't called it abuse (and I've agreed with most of your points) but others have upthread, it was close to the start. Once DD is in bed I'll have a look for the specific post/posts. As a former young carer, I found it laughable that this thread is full of people claiming to want the best for young carers but thinking nothing of calling their parents selfish/abusive etc and demanding that strangers come into the house - when young carers would be left to deal with the inevitable fallout, especially with parents with mental health issues.

Sorry Ovaries, if that's the case then I do disagree with that, not least because it just doesn't help at all to label people like that. I can imagine if that sentiment became widespread, many needful parents would avoid support for fear of their children being taken from them, and likewise children may feel the same, that they would be taken away from mum and dad if they told the school they were having a difficult time. It's certainly not the way forward.

And I think that's unfortunately the problem, there is no ideal solution :( I highly doubt children would be happier or less damaged being taken into the care system. I have no doubt you are right about the difficulties that the reality of having a carer would pose on a family. My friend works with disabled people through MacIntyre and she has had problems with coworkers being insensitive, dispassionate etc. It's far from a perfect job. I think, personally, that the ideal solution is a combination of support for the parents, support for the child, respite for the family and ongoing monitoring of the situation. Is that what every kid gets? I doubt it :(

I think, personally, that the ideal solution is a combination of support for the parents, support for the child, respite for the family and ongoing monitoring of the situation. Is that what every kid gets? I doubt it

Unfortunately not :( respite care in most areas has been totally cut, especially of the residential variety. Young carers groups rely on the funding they get through things like Comic Relief and Children In Need but they're a godsend, an absolute lifeline to lots of kids. Mental health support is being stripped down to the bare bones and I believe disability support is too, so very little support for the parents either, and just the nature of disability and mental health means it's likely extended family won't be around, so there's no respite even from there.

There's a hell of a lot that should be done but isn't :(

Totally agree with you op, Children should be allowed to be children.

It's still virtue signalling for society to say it's unacceptable, yet I see people kicking up a stink about increased council tax and again, how many of you lobby your MPs or volunteer for your local carer support organisation? There's lots to help even if you can't make a lot of effort e.g. a simple email to your MP.

Ovaries Jesus christ that is bleak :( I remember reading an article about a woman with an autistic child prone to violent outbursts. What struck me was the absolute lack of any support available, emotional/mental health wise or practical. She had other children to look after too, and I think they got one day or one weekend of respite care every 6 weeks :( To hear that the government is willing to cut that funding for support further is really devastating.

I really think the biggest trick we are missing here is with schools. Given that these kids presumably spend 30 hours of their week at school, surely they could do more to assist these children? But schools are facing cuts too I suppose... What the fuck is going on??

Wayfaring there's no need to be so critical, people are struggling in a million different ways, I hadn't even thought of child carers in years because people have hardships of there own to contend with. It's all well and good to be saying basically well there's no good talking about it on the internet but you're not doing anything... But these are the kinds of discussions that open peoples' eyes and want to find ways of helping.

...and the pious attitude of "look at me, what do you do" is really not compassionate, productive or useful..

I remember watching a documentary about child carers a couple of years back, and in one report, a young lad of 16 was helping his mum who had MS. he also had to care for younger siblings. He said that all he wanted to do was to have the chance to go to University like any other young person, and his mum broke down and cried, begging him not to leave her! The look of anguish on his face was awful.

The lack of empathy on this thread is shocking

Really?
I've seen tons of empathy.

I think it would be more shocking if we had NO empathy for the plight of the young carers and their families.

I can just about get my head around young carers having to do housework and shopping and fetching and carrying, but do children really have to do personal care? Such as wiping their parents bums and changing incontinence pads?
Please somebody tell me that that's exaggerated and it doesn't happen that often.

My husband suffers from severe depression and I have chronic health problems - we were both fit and healthy when we had our son. I have thought long and hard about getting my son support with our local Young Carers as I don't want our son to feel responsible for us. But he does, particularly for his dad - and the amount of support he has got from speaking to children who have been through something similar has changed my mind. He said that he thought he was the only one, so it has been nothing but positive for us.

Ovaries, that may have been me.

Abuse was probably the wrong word and I apologize. I think safeguarding would have been a better choice of word.

If a child is missing school and has a heavy workload of housework and personal care duties and is tired a lot ofl the time, then I would have thought that comes under safeguarding.

As much as people feel sorry for the parent the child is supporting and we all do, surely the 'main' concern in all this should be for the well being of the child?

I think that's why this is such an emotive subject.

It's programmed into us to consider the needs of children first.

I really think the biggest trick we are missing here is with schools. Given that these kids presumably spend 30 hours of their week at school, surely they could do more to assist these children? But schools are facing cuts too I suppose... What the fuck is going on??

A lot of schools just don't seem to understand it. I used to get in trouble for low attendance; no amount of explaining the situation would elicit any understanding from them - just "we have targets to hit, you need to come to school".

I sat two GCSE exams the day after my Dad was sectioned; I was in bits and got about halfway through one before I had to leave. There was no sympathy or empathy, just a row from the teacher. When the grades for the other one came back and I got a D, I got a row for that too. If schools can't even show basic empathy, the support is going to be almost non-existent :(

Beards

I absolutely agree re: safeguarding brickin, apologies for my overreaction, I think "abuse" has such strong connotations but safeguarding is absolutely right and should form part of a comprehensive care package offered to families with disabled members, with input from each family member as to what they need and can cope with.

Ovaries A lot of them cant even show basic common sense when a child needs the toilet during class.

Some of them even think if a child cant hold themselves for an hour and 40 mins they should see a GP about it. This is evident in a thread running on here at the moment about a child soiling himself in class.

Unbelievable that the suggestion is that you should see a GP if you cant piss and shit in accordance with a school timetable. So your post does not surprise me at all.

I have asked on that thread what is/can be done to help young carers.