Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

Can you imagine a teacher vomiting in class because they couldn't leave the kids unattended and then waiting till the bell rings before getting help with the clear up? It doesn't seem likely that a teacher would be forced to endure this or be sacked.

I would be sacked if I left class unattended to go to the loo
So what would the process be if you were suddenly taken ill? Presumably you could and would do the same if you had a sudden urgent toilet need? Your job would likely be untenable if you soiled yourself in front of a class anyway.

Tech I agree it's not good but it happens and not infrequently. Just as secondary kids being taught a subject for two terms by a teaching assistant - who has interest in the subject. That's not meant to happen either!

One of mine had a teacher who refused those with toilet passes too. Of course many of the children with the passes had some sort of sen or medical need other than the toileting and many were too quiet to speak up.

When my desperate toilet pass holding very quiet dc was repeatedly refused the kids went bonkers. A group were trying to encourage dc to go while calling the teacher sly as dc didn't have the confidence to go against the teacher.

Dc spent ages not being able to concentrate as desperate.
The teacher had 20 minutes of kids kicking off that she wouldn't let dc go.
Two walked out to find year head

Surely that's a whole lot more disruptive to a lesson?

To the person who said they worked with patients with bowel conditions. I have problems with both and if I know I have appointments like that I don't drink or take tablets.

I've had operations too so pretty bad.

School

That is wrong that she refused with a toilet pass. Was she aware he had a pass?

If so i hope the HOY Gave the teacher a warning and was on the side of your DC

She was aware, she believed that many of the ones who had them didn't need them (not her call to make)

Mind you she was a bit of a bully generally...

Toilet pass children go out, no questions asked.

Schools need to implement a monitoring system so toilet 'passes' are logged by staff in diaries.

That way any damage done school can check who was out and when.

And the majority can go if needed. Most children will only ask a few times in a year, when it's genuine.

Those going out regularly need checking by a doctor and if it's just poor time management then they're not let out.

It's immensely frustrating as a teacher to have kids ask to go out 10 minutes after lunch has ended, when they didn't bother all lunchtime.

Yes there's exceptions. I rarely refuse to let a girl go out for obvious reasons.

But it is a problem in schools.

The rule is there for a reason and I say this as the Mother of a ten year old who still needs to be reminded to go to the loo. She had one accident when she was six and it's never happened again. At DD's primary excrement has been smeared on the walls and loos have been deliberately blocked, if restricting visits helps to lessen these incidents then I'm more in favour (I hate cleaning the loo and would be absolutely fuming if I had to clear up deliberate acts of vandalism).

From my POV as a parent, we were never told that children wouldn't have access to toilets. It only came to light after DS had wet himself. I personally think schools should be transparent about this if kids are not going to be permitted to go to the toilet and won't have access before school and at break for example.

We thought it was like the primary he had attended where he was able to go as and when he needed to without a formal pass or anything.

We should have been told and then I would have known to request a pass for him. We weren't told and he didn't tell us (embarrassed) so we couldn't get him a toilet pass.

I assumed that he would have access to a toilet.

schoolofconfusion

We had a group of pupils whose parents had the " walk out of lessons" rule as put forward by several posters.

They would walk out of lessons claiming the need to go to the toilet, they would disrupt not just one lesson, but every lesson between the class that they had just left and the toilets that they chose to visit (usually the furthest for the class that they were in). They would take up the time of the teachers in those lessons and the support staff that had to wrangle them but in to lessons and then the parents of those children would waste the time of the teachers and SLT by complaining about the treatment of there children.

I would not work in a school that had a total ban on toilet breaks during lessons, but I can see why some schools have those rules in place.

Honestly though what do the schools expect if they have unreasonable rules?

Of course imposing unreasonable or punishing rules on children is going to cause active trouble making!

What a lot of people here seem to be forgetting is that not all pupils are going to the toilets for toilet purposes. Many of our pupils are 17-18 years old and it is the one place they can do things, unseen. This is more likely in lesson times as toilets are busy at break / lunch times.

They go there to: text, update phones (not a big deal but...) vape (plenty of this about now and it is extremely difficult to detect unless they are caught), smoke (not so hard to track - they often ask to go to the toilet but head outside). Pass drugs (this is a growing issue in schools, particularly MDMA and skunk) or simply to have a skive.

We too have a "not usually" policy and toilets are not locked, we just discourage use during lessons.

Medical conditions, child in distress, girl giving eye signals, clear desperation - we note who they are, and time out / back and they go.

But schools are not exclusively populated with well behaved 11 year olds with sudden bouts of illness, or long term conditions.

We have wanna be criminals and disaffected teens - and we have to do the right thing for up to 33 of these people at a time.

My DS who is nearly 12 and is enthusiastic about school and learning is assessed for lesson participation as well as attainment. Forgetting equipment including a pen to a lesson results in his participation being marked down and in my friend's daughter's school in her being put on report. Honestly living under that kind of pressure just results in children giving up on trying to follow the rules a lot of the time.

Ok. I get the point about not letting kids out in case they're dealing drugs etc.

But in that case don't you think schools need to tell parents ALL parents that their kids,won't be allowed out to the toilet and if there is a genuine medical need to get a letter? We were never told it would be like that. And my own school wasn't like that so it never occurred to me that it would be

MrsT2007

Do they boys not moan about showing favoritism , if you rarely refuse girls but do boys?

The fact that he chooses to go to school early every day to help out on the school farm and his teachers all report that he is an enthusiastic participant in discussions and makes great contributions to most subjects seems to all be undone by him not always being able to find his pen.

Yes University

Which is why explain every September, they must get a letter to go during lessons, those with conditions do so.

It is wrong if parents are not told the rules

We were never told. And I don't think DS was but I will text him and ask.

Offred
Honestly though what do the schools expect if they have unreasonable rules?

There where (are) no unreasonable toilet rules at this school, you ask, fill in the permission slip and go. (normally on at a time).
If you have a toilet pass you just go.

This issue was caused by pupils that wanted out of the lesson (and their parents that gave them an unlimited veto on school rules).

The knock on affect is that rules get tightened.

Just to add to the 'teacher being taken ill' scenario, this did happen in the school where I work (I am not a teacher or a teaching assistant). Fortunately there was a teaching assistant in the room when the teacher collapsed, and the children were removed to another room, with another member of staff to supervise them, while we waited for the ambulance. It was a very distressing time for all concerned.
Thankfully the teacher recovered.

As far as going to the toilet is concerned, I've never seen any teacher leave a class unsupervised to do this. If the need becomes urgent they would have to collar someone else to sit in while they left the room.

Thetemptation

I Have never left a lesson to go toilet, i hold it until break and lunch. just like i expect the students to.

Using the toilet a lot is one of the major signs of Type 1 Diabetes (along with Tired, Thirsty and Thin). Age 11 -15 is the most common age for diagnosis. Teachers should not therefore ever refuse access to the loo, and if it is a regular occurrence they should report it to parents for medical checkup.

It's not the only area in schools where there is wielding of power over the pupils though. It is well researched that anti social behaviour is caused in part by a lack of inclusion into the community that is being vandalised. Children are required to attend schools but schools are often not able to ensure that children feel a valued part of the school community or invested in the success of the school.

I would be sacked if I left class unattended to go to the loo

But you wouldn't be leaving the class unattended. Presumably you'd be leaving the TA in charge?