Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

Universitychallenging

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Not every school is like yours.

Its not only teachers on the the thread that are failing to understand this

School

The staff toilets are too far away from my room.
Nothing worse than children claiming that they are about to wee themselves, when you have not had a chance to go all afternoon, especially when they have just passed several sets of available toilets.

Piece - I'm not really fussed about the schools you have worked in. I complained about the school my DS goes to implementing this new rule (that every absence has to be certified for the entire length of the absence) because they have been put in special measures.

University

Proves my point of why i generally refuse, presumably the school took action when vandalism occurred while pupils had been allowed to go during class time.

Ours were unlocked at break if:

The caretaker wasn't busy
The caretaker remembered
Usually at least ten minutes into a 15 minute break

Ours were unlocked at break if:

The caretaker wasn't busy
The caretaker remembered
Usually at least ten minutes into a 15 minute break

I mean even if schools only have those rules for children with low attendance (below 95%) then parents still should not be taking children to the GP if they don't need to be seen by a GP. GPs don't even do sickness certification for children.

But none of the children currently at the school were involved in any vandalism. Those children were expelled I believe so why punish generations of furtive children for the actions of those who weren't there any longer?

Future

Although 😂 At furtive.

University

I believe that is wrong, the caretaker should unlock the toilets before break and be spoken

Still doesn't mean every child who ask should go during lessons. Lessons should not be disrupted due to a caretaker

And you think I didn't say that to the school?

I've been reading another thread about allowing drinks in classrooms. We weren't allowed drinks until we were in the sixth form at school, so maybe that's why we never needed to leave the classroom for the toilet in my day. Our toilets weren't locked or ever vandalised - no one even asked to go because it simply wouldn't have been countenanced. My school was very disciplined though.

Some of these comments/expectations are barbaric. If you need the toilet, you go to the toilet. Yes, people (of all ages) should be encouraged to go at designated break times, but the human body doesn't always run to a timetable. Having an 'accident' will be humiliating no matter the person's age - it's the sort of thing that no one who was there will ever forget.

A teacher who can't recognise a genuine look of desperation in a child's eyes is a crap teacher. If a child asks to go to the toilet and looks desperate, fidgety and/or upset, saying no is outrageous.

Not all medical conditions are diagnosed. Not all illnesses start before the school day, enabling the parents to prewarn the teachers. Not all girls know their periods are about to start. A lot of girls start their periods at a younger age than you might expect, and they don't want the world and his dog knowing. As should be their right. Children find anything to do with bodily functions embarrassing - it's cruel to make them explain their need to go to the toilet.

We are given firm instructions to never let pupils out of lessons , for good reasons like the fire alarms kept being set off, theft, damage and general disruption to lessons
My heart goes out to the poor child , I gently suggest that there was something wrong for him to soil himself, hopefully temporary

I would be sacked if I left class unattended to go to the loo

Only one of my children has ever had an appointment with the GP (for referral to CAMHS and paediatrician) because none of them have ever been ill with anything other than a minor virus. There is guidance from the NHS about appropriate use of GP appointments/A&E for children which directly conflicts with this kind of school policy.

IMO if schools want to impose a system of sickness certification by GPs they will need to start employing one specifically for that purpose. The NHS is not there to provide sickness certification for children with minor ailments or to help schools to comply with burdensome regulations. It has its own burdensome regulations to comply with.

Same at my school Nofunking, unless they have a note, i could not leave no matter how desperate.

All the adults saying you could not leave - well that isn't strictly true is it? If your choice was between vomiting/shitting/pissing yourself you would likely leave anyway and take the consequences after. It doesn't work like that for children at school because they are children and are having the rules imposed on them by the system. As a teacher you are a part of the system imposing the rules.

IMO if schools want to impose a system of sickness certification by GPs they will need to start employing one specifically for that purpose
Who will pay for this?

I wish (and i say this from a school attendance POV!) that they'd loosen the expectations on attendance. I totally see why ofsted and co want good attendance but, I recognise the current system doesn't always work. We ask for medical evidence for low attendance or we won't authorise absences, which used to lead to a penalty notice (less so now). It's not because we want every sick child at the doctors but it's to a) justify to ofsted or whoever that the child is genuinely unwell and we can evidence it, and b) to deter the persistent non attendees who will stay at home for every little sniffle. We know the system isn't perfect but really don't know what a better option is.

Does this teacher judgement not rather penalise shy children with good self control who will not want to admit they're desperate or having period difficulties or obviously show it on their faces? Can teachers take into account that certain children wouldn't ask if they had any alternative? Even then woe betide the child who has an issue at the beginning of the school year. Some people would happily yell out miss miss I'm desperate, asking at all would be a sign of desperation from DS as he hates to be noticed. He wet himself on the 2 minute walk home from school once having asked and not been allowed - but at least it wasn't in school.

This is appalling. I remember this happening to my friend when we were 12. One teacher had clearly taken a dislike to her for no apparent reason and often made snippy comments to her. One day my friend put her hand up several times and begged to be allowed to the loo, teacher just kept saying no, you should have gone at lunchtime, you need to learn to manage your time better... Well, it was clearly a stomach bug and no, she couldn't wait.

My friend was extremely lucky that as a class we all just blamed the teacher and our opinion of her couldn't have been any lower after that. I remember some of the lads (who you'd expect to bully her as they were that sort generally) consoling her afterwards. We all just reassured her that it was Miss X being an utter bitch and not her fault at all. Her parents still moved her to another school afterwards as they were so disgusted with it and the schools total lack of apology.

Pringle

If a child was fidgety or squirming i would make an exception, but if they have gone at break and lunch this should be rare

The school would have to. Why do parents have to pay for sickness certification for their children as most GPs charge for letters and why does the NHS have to pay for inappropriate use of doctors?

I would be sacked if I left class unattended to go to the loo Several times my dcs have told me that the teacher did not turn up for class - and no one turned up to supervise them for nearly an hour. This has happened at both primary and secondary. No one lost their job!

lottachocca

that is appalling to left unsupervised for nearly an hour.