Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

This thread is getting confusing. Checking back in after a short post on about page 16 and have caught up. I still have not read anything that convinces me a child or teen should be refused access to the toilet. If my DCs previous (ordinary comp) school could manage the toilet pass or signed student planner system, and have supervision of the corridors, and loos why can't others? My Dcs school also had a "shout out" for ugent classroom incidents or if the teacher needed to leave the room urgently. I asked my DC again, including the 29 year old what they would do if refused. He said, well if it was the choice of weeing or pooing in his pants, or leave the classroom unauthorised to make a dash for the loo he'd do the latter and take the consequences.

It's a shame to assume parents who would support their Dc exiting the classroom without permission to avoid an accident (me included) would also be the ones who don't support sensible sanctions for other things and encourage their Dc towards anarchy. As far as I was concerned if my DC got a detention or other consequence for anything, even if it seemed unfair, they had to suck it up. We always supported the teachers. But ultimately it's about what is reasonable. Refusing toilet isn't reasonable. Supervision outside the classroom is.

The teachers on this thread sound mostly dedicated and concerned but please don't assume parents who aren't teachers don't know anything about the pressures you're under just because we wouldn't cooperate with a policy that doesn't allow people to go to the toilet, if they get caught short. I agree that most teens can hold on if they misjudged the preferred timing of using the toilets at break time. However I doubt they're getting much out of a lesson when they are trying not to have an accident or panicking about bleeding through their clothes. I don't think there's the perfect answer to this problem. It's all 'yes but...no but...' I only know I'm glad to be out of it as a parent, if this is the way things are going.

Rosebag:

Your argument is at least reasonable, focusing on how the need to use the toilet can be balanced against the need to safeguard children. I would argue it also needs to be balanced against the need to provide an effective education to all children. Constant toilet trips disrupt learning and so should be kept to an absolute minimum.

But the issue for me is that so many posters think in such absolutist terms: human rights, abuse, etc. They honestly believe teachers can be 100% accountable for safety and learning, but that they should have zero authority with which to achieve those outcomes. That is of course ridiculous.

I agree Rosebag. You can teach your child to follow general instructions and support sanctions without teaching them to publicly soil themselves on the say so of a teacher!
I would honestly worry about the safety of a child who would not have the confidence to leave class if they were actually going to have an accident. What else would they do on the say so of an adult in authority?

Constant toilet trips disrupt learning and so should be kept to an absolute minimum

I don't disagree with this.

I do disagree with a policy that says no class-time visits to the toilet and refuses teachers the discretion to make common sense decisions based on the welfare of the individual concerned.

Trifle I think a number of your recent posts have been a really unfair interpretation of what most people who have said what happened in the op shouldn't have happened believe and have posted.

It is horrible but most 13 year olds don't soil themselves. I suspect there is a medical issue. I which case, the parents should inform the school (even if it is not a diagnosed problem - she may just find it difficult to wait) and then should would be allowed out during class time. Generally, Secondary aged children are not allowed to go to the loo during class.

We have not come across any legislation or government guidance stating that schools cannot lock toilets during lessons or at other times of the day. To our knowledge, it is therefore legal for schools to lock toilets during lessons, but we think this is unacceptable.

Read our suggestions of what to do to get your school to re-open the toilets during lessons:www.eric.org.uk/blog/what-to-do-if-your-school-toilets-are-locked-during-lessons

The legislation that covers school toilets and washing facilities is the Schools Premises and Regulations (SPRs) 2012: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/410294/Advice_on_standards_for_school_premises.pdf

Every school I've taught in has a policy that kids go at breaks and lunch times. Toilets are now starting to be locked during lesson times at a lot of schools to stop skivers hiding in loos during lessons, vandalism etc etc

If a child has a medical need or exceptional circumstance the parent liaises with the school and gets a medical pass which allows the child to leave class to go to the loo in an area where they aren't locked but monitored.

It's unfortunate that this happened. I've known a similar situation, where in morning briefing staff were told explicitly to adhere to this policy as people were making exceptions and problems were happening. The first lesson of the day a teacher refused and a girl leaked. First time the teacher hadn't used their discretion because it was made so explicit in a meeting.

It's so hard to find the balance - hence parents needing to get a pass if necessary for their child

I just phoned our GP surgery to make an appointment for DH His blood pressure was high the last 3 times it was checked. They want to check it again. He has emphysema and ischemic heart disease.

Took ages to get through and appointments were all booked up solid.

I wonder how many of those are time wasting appointments parents have been forced to book at the insistence of schools.

None. It's the school holidays.

Not here it's not.

But if your child needs a pass for medical reasons, then those need specifying for the school.

Zeezeek they are more likely to attend/book appointments during school holidays so they dont get moaned at for missing school as well as being moaned at for not toiletting on demand.

These threads where teachers mention how irritating it is when kids turn up without a pen always make me go and check dd has pens and order another multipack of spares from Tesco!

Next time i go to see my GP i will be telling him about the "advice" dished out on this thread about how there must be something wrong with a teen if they cant time their bladder/bowel to suit a timetable. And how the NHS "should" do something about it according to some on here.

What with the insistence on letters from GPs for a couple of days off school there is a problem with schools abusing the NHS!

Most kids can go during break and lunch, or between lessons.

This is a one off unfortunate incident that all parties involved would probably have preferred to avoid.

The teachers on here have offered reasonable points regarding not letting teen children who don't have aforementioned conditions out during lessons.

The teacher bashing is unnecessary, and displays a level of arrogance and conceit about teachers amongst some that can only result in their children displaying against teachers too.

Ask yourself this, how many times do you as parents not stop the car immediately when a child says they need to go? Many of us try to get them to hold on for a bit longer, could easily result in the same thing.

Wind your necks in.

Helenadove,

ridiculous post.

Really? I dont think so. How the fuck do you know whats been in our local paper? You dont. I do. So i have more idea what causes the problems.

Offred:

With respect, I don't think that is true at all. You are obviously entitled to interpret things however you like.

No helena you buy into any crap you have read. We require no notes for absence unless long term or persistent offenders and then the EWO deals. We use our common sense with the toilet breaks..... as we do with most things.

I'm sure some people think teachers go into their jobs purely to torture children.

The rights not responsibilities attitude has gone way too far.

"No helena you buy into any crap you have read"

No i dont Otherwise i would believe every single post on this site.

Given that I don't remember seeing any posts saying this;

But the issue for me is that so many posters think in such absolutist terms: human rights, abuse, etc. They honestly believe teachers can be 100% accountable for safety and learning, but that they should have zero authority with which to achieve those outcomes. That is of course ridiculous.

I think they have.

Most people simply expect schools to have reasonable rules and have agreed that they understand the pressure teachers are under. Most teachers also seem to understand that a child who had been refused the toilet pooing himself in class is not acceptable and make reasonable accommodations to avoid that even if the school has rules which if taken to the letter mean they require the child to poo himself.

Offred:

How to say this nicely... I understand what you think and I believe we should leave it there.

How to say this nicely - 2/10. Must try harder.