Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

I would expect the adult to accept sometimes kids need the toilet the same as grown ups! Nobody should be put in a position where they have an accident.
I have IBS and during jury duty I had to get proceedings halted while I dashed to the loo! I wasn't aware ALL the jury would follow me to the jury room and would be there to greet me when I came out of the toilets!! Seriously awkward 🙄

Lotta why would a teacher punish for medical needs? Has been said on here many times that this is not the case

zoe

We really don't do it for the power 😂 I mean..do you actually think that? Really?

I was responding to the "claim" aspect of your post. Periods problems are massively common whether diagnosed or simply teen girls getting to grips with their menstrual cycle starting - which can often mean irregular and heavy periods.

I suppose it's the medical needs that have not yet been assessed i.e. Early stages of crohns or ulcerative or other colitis, gastroenteritis etc, like the original post

We're thinking a phone may be ds's best chance at a call for help -- stuck in a loo with soiled clothing, I think a mobile is the only way out with any dignity.

DS is old enough that his phone when he was at school wasn't a smart phone it was just a brick for texting and phoning and had snake on it, so he certainly wasn't sneaking off to play on his phone or snapchat or facebook or anything.
We are talking about children in general though aren't we, not just your child. Your experience sounds awful but every child isn't in your child's position.

At the end of the day, in most schools teachers have discretion (like mine).

Im not going to refuse a perfectly reasonable request, but do use techniques to cull the time wasters because the more kids who use toilet breaks as a wander, the more likely a school is to go to a draconian blanket ban (other than medical passes) like some teachers on here have said their schools do. As it happens being fair means that kids know if they really need to go ill let them, but students who use it as an excuse know better than to try (if you look in their leaving class page you can see which teachers theyve sussed will let them wander).

Schools are usually very acvomodating of individual needs. I can think of over a dozen kids who have passes out of class from my groups alone. They cover everything from toilet passes to medical issues.
The idea that refusing some equest is some kind of nasty power trip is insane.

I imagine underfunding & big class sizes don't help. I imagine draconian measures aren't implemented as a power trip, but as a desperate means to control unruliness when there isn't the time/energy/resources for kinder means

leccy and trifle I teach in a school which was rebuilt at a cost of (deliberately vague so not to out self) between £45 and £60 million, open plan style, no classrooms or staffrooms. A year later, walls were put in with a grant from the DfE as special measures were looming...fucking disaster!
It had been heralded as a new beginning for our community, but 4 years and 2 HMI visits later we are still graded RI.

Ps I think being a teacher is one of the hardest jobs in the world & you certainly don't do it for the £ or prestige. I have utmost respect for most teachers

Oh they were perfectly aware. Doctors notes and everything. Nurse had to 'handle' my medication because I obviously wasn't mature enough to handle it on my own at 15... So most adults in the school were aware of the issue I'd love to say that this was in the 70's or something, but I was actually only 8 years ago.

It was an appallingly shit school though. Really sadistic teachers. I fully realise my experience represents the minority. The second wasn't quite as bad.

It is NOT an "understandable rule"! It is unreasonable, inhumane, unacceptable and a total misuse of power by the teacher concerned. It is also an infringement of human rights so whether it is legal or not is beside the question. It is simply not OK to deny any request to use the toilet or even to enquire as to whether or not it is necessary. Many schools lock the toilets during lesson times and anyone needing to use them has to get permission to go to reception for a key - absolutely outrageous! I can't believe that any parent will put up with this without demanding it is changed and withdrawing their child until action is taken.

MC

Do you spend much time trying to ensure large groups of teens do as well as possible educationally?

It's like herding cats I can assure you.

And dealing with (& paying for) the utter mess kids can leave the loos in is no laughing matter either. Graffiti, purposely blocked and flooded toilets, sinks pulled off walls, loo roll everywhere.

That's before the (illegal) smoking in there.

Mcamp, if every child was allowed the loo with no questions asked or no rules, no work would get done. For this reason medical notes aside the answer in most cases is no.

SmileEachDay I used to be a teacher, obviously I know not everyone does it for the power trip - that's not what I said . But you aren't surely going to tell me with a straight face that there aren't teachers out there who don't do things for the power trip? Clearly there bloody are. if you never encountered one in your own school career then you were very lucky!

In any case, if a teacher is so rule-bound that a child is reduced to soiling themselves in their classroom, then actually the motivations are irrelevant anyway. No disciplinary system should be so rigid that a child poos himself in a class.

Overall, I suspect that school-wide bans on using toilets are a symptom not a cause. Schools with overall control of discipline don't feel the need to enforce draconian rules with no allowance for individual teacher judgement. And if only some teachers in a school feel the need to be so rigidly draconian, then that similarly calls into question how effective their control of their classrooms is as compared to their colleagues.

"if every child was allowed the loo with no questions asked or no rules, no work would get done"

But that is demonstrably untrue, as not all schools feel the need to enforce this rule.

Overall, I suspect that school-wide bans on using toilets are a symptom not a cause. Schools with overall control of discipline don't feel the need to enforce draconian rules with no allowance for individual teacher judgement.
Perhaps, but sometimes there is a need. Schools in a bad way with poor behaviour need to use strategies to get discipline back in order.

And if only some teachers in a school feel the need to be so rigidly draconian, then that similarly calls into question how effective their control of their classrooms is as compared to their colleagues.
Can go either way.
Some people gi draconian to compensate.
Flip side is people who let students out all the time and the kids call "chilled" and are cool are the ones who seem to have unsettled classes when you wander uo the corridor. Thry spend too much time trying to get the kids on side that they are liked but not respected.
Healthy medium needed.

Strategies to get discipline back in order are fine, but not if they lead to children pooing themselves in class. There are not just one but several examples on this thread where this has happened and caused lasting psychological damage. I can't believe this is even an argument at all!!

Zoe, schools usually have a rule of somekind for example

outright bans
one at a time
missing part of breaktime to repay the time

i was referring to mcamp who seemed to suggest pupils should be allowed to go anytime

I had a rule that from Y10 any child who needed the loo could get up and go. This was provided no one else was out of the room. They put their initials on the corner of the board when they left and erased when they came back. I also asked them to quietly let me or someone else know if they were going to be longer than 'wee time'.

greylady

your rule would be taken advantage of in my school, which is why my rule is no unless they have a note