Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

"Seriously. The level of outrage and absolute disgust about "teachers" as a body is remarkable."

What!!!!!!!!!!! You dont like teachers all being treated as one homogenous mass.

When that is EXACTLY what you are doing to youngsters by assuming that they are all the same and are all insisting on going to the toilet for dubious reasons.

every child was allowed the loo with no questions asked or no rules, no work would get done. For this reason medical notes aside the answer in most cases is no

Every child is allowed at my sons school, every single one, they do not even need to stick up a hand and ask,they can just get up and walk out.
No requirement to do anything at all or make up any work time at all.

Yet they do not have anything untoward occuring, nobody is missing large parts of lessons and results are usually incredibly good.its not some
It's also never fallen below the best ofstead rating possible

I let a year 11 go a couple of weeks ago right at the start of the lesson. She then demanded to go again half an hour later. I refused. She then kicked off shouting and stropping that it was against her human rights, also shouting that she would pay anyone in the class £20 if they could wee themselves. Of course the first time she'd gone she was just having a chat with a friend. The second time I don't know, maybe she did need a wee, maybe she had another friend to meet. We aren't mind readers but even though it's against policy I'll let a kid go if they are squirming. Some classes once you let one go they all want to go which is incredibly disruptive

And next time i see a thread on here moaning about ppl taking up GP appointments im going to put in a link to this thread.

"Dr ive come to see you because i just happened to need to go to the loo at a time that didnt fit in with the schools timetable. "

Because ppl cant shit to order according to a timetable FGS.

There is going to be the odd few times in FIVE YEARS of high school when a youngster will need to go at a time that cant suit every other fucker.

Helena

That's not true. Most of the teachers on this thread, including me, use their judgement in individual cases. There are several different strategies, that suit individual classes/children. Like, the opposite of homogeneous...

There is surely a happy medium between 'let the entire class leave the room at once and stay out for half an hour' and 'only with a note'?! I dread my kids encountering that kind of senseless rigidity. Kids are human beings and the child in the OP had no medical need - accidents clearly just happen. If you cannot recognise a desperate child and bend the rules accordingly that is just indefensible.

Some people's opinions of teachers on here is so low, it's no surprise we get grief from the kids. I've worked in special measures and outstanfing schools. What they've all scarily had in common is that fires have been lit and left in toilets during lesson time. Usually small but one big enough to need the fire service and an evacuation. It's helpful for teachers to keep track of who's out of lessons when!

I have to when I'm teaching.

(that was to techteach btw)

Shit to timetable I mean'

I can't just pop out when nature calls

I have to predict AF and wear a pad, just in case.

Yet they do not have anything untoward occuring

Didn't you say upthread that at your DS's school there were only 4-6 in a class and any DC leaving the classroom would be followed by a keyworker? In which case it's not surprising that nothing untoward happens!

I have instructed my kids to leave the classroom if they really need to and we'll deal with the teacher afterwards. They shouldn't feel they need to beg for s fundamental human right!

Once you let one go, you usually get a few more put their hands up to go, it soon gets out of control. Then when you refuse one you get the "but you let so and so go" just easier to say no end of.

They are not surpervised in the actual room containing toilets. There are more than 1 class it is an actual school not some tiny dolls house version of a school.
And it deals with what are considered to some of the most challenging and difficult children in the country.

You know, I should do the same next time I need to go.

I have the same human rights don't I?

Clearly not.

Zoe

I did say if a child says they feel unwell i would let them leave the room

And next time i see a thread on here moaning about ppl taking up GP appointments im going to put in a link to this thread.

Indeed. I complained to our CCG recently re my son's high school requesting doctors and pharmacists do sickness certification (a note to say child had been examined and if necessary given medicine) for each day of illness. It is a misuse of the NHS. Most childhood illnesses simply require rest and paracetamol/ibruprofen as they are viruses and it would be highly irresponsible to take the child into places like pharmacies or GP's surgeries because of the risk to those with suppressed immune systems etc to them or passing it onto the gp to infect patients.

Even if a GP was willing to provide notes for schools re periods/medical conditions most of them will charge. Also in my town average time for diagnosis with ASD is 4 years, for most medical conditions you have the symptoms, possibly for many years even, before you are diagnosed. Diagnosis should not be a passport to access to a toilet. It is ridiculous and unfair and the result of having stupid rules like that is that the school's relationship with the children and their families suffers.

IMO schools are getting really ridiculous and, whilst I feel for them because this is largely because of increasing pressure on already tough to manage systems, burdening the NHS in these ways is highly irresponsible and petty and this and other petty rules is not going to help with discipline or love of learning because IMO these kind of petty rules by tinpot dictators just make children decide to behave badly because they are going to be disrespected and punished anyway.

I have more children asking out in an average one hour lesson than there are in Needasock's ds' class.
I have learned some good ideas on this thread, the phone collection or the sign out sheet are good. It's not an easy problem to solve.

@lottachocca - what happens if every child in your dc's class is told the same thing by their parents - 'Just walk out - I will deal with the teacher' - and their classes are disrupted by pupils coming and going as they see fit, and your dc doesn't get essential course work or curriculum completed for their GCSEs - will you be happy with that outcome?

What do people think happens if children are legally required to attend school but school rules are petty, unfair, disrespectful and unaccountable?

Because i do say no, not many ask to use the toilet they make sure they go before the lesson, once they have to wait a couple of times they soon learn to remember to go at the correct times.

"If they really need to" lottachocca said, and after reading this thread I'll be saying the same to my kids. If the alternative is soiling yourself, leave. That's not coming and going as they see fit. As has been observed, most children and teachers manage to remain in classrooms without mishap so never do "really need". It's a crying shame that a few children are so scared of authority that they'll have an accident rather than disobey their teacher, and if there's a chance my permission may make my child not be one of those then it's worth a mention.

I'm sure if they were genuinely about to poo themselves a teacher would find a way to leave too, you must have a protocol for what to do if you need to leave the classroom in an emergency. Whether it's an actual illness starting or just bad luck.

Incidentally, I do think the "on stage" feeling of being in front of a class does tend to suppress bodily functions, I've been caught short when shopping or on the phone in a sudden and can't wait 10 minutes way but never yet while teaching or performing or presenting. So wouldn't be surprised if it did genuinely happen to pupils more than teachers.

I told my kids if they needed the loo and were denied to walk out .
That's a basic human right
Knowing they had my permission ensured it wasn't a problem.

Ofred schools ask for notes because they are accountable to ofsted for attendance and as a result need medical proof for prolonged absence.

offred
Children are not legally required to attend schools. They are legally required to be educated.
They are only required to attend schools if the parents choose to register them in one