Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

At the last school I taught at we had a no toilet during lessons rule. There was a spreadsheet kept of kids who were found at the toilet and a spreadsheet of the staff who's lesson they should be in. Then they started locking them. A poo was found under the stairs. I had a year 8 girl wet herself in my lesson and had to clean it up and her knickers and tights. I absolutely understand why school's think it's a good policy but I hate it! I would hate for any dc of mine (my dd is still a baby) to be denied the toilet when they need to go.

badgers its an acadamy chain of secondarys in manchester actually. They have 'open' classrooms so just set working spaces with dividers so there are always at least 3 members of staff with thwir respective classes around. I was very when i heard about it but in practice its fantastoc. The one i saw was hostorically one of the worst schools in britain which now has one of the best behaviour outcomes of the area

From our family's experience:

DSDs' previous school had an absolute ban on toilet breaks during lessons, with toilet blocks locked due to vandalism. Students with medical issues were provided with toilet passes which allowed them the privilege of leaving class, but still having to show their pass to the school nurse's office in order to obtain the toilet key. In a school of 1500+ pupils, with only 2x 15min breaks per day, there were numerous times that our girls reported being unable to use the toilets despite queing for the entirety of their break/ having to eat lunch whilst in the toilet queue/ being denied leaving lessons for unexpected periods etc- it was a ridiculous set-up and completely over the top.

DSD2's current secondary school has an open-door policy to toilet breaks during class time, and longer breaktimes. Apart from the usual few students abusing the system by using the toilets to text/ ring/ gossip with their mates during classtime, there are no issues of vandalism at all, and the school do not feel their policy encourages disruption to lessons as very few students use it as a way to skive off.

DD1 is 6 and has medically diagnosed kidney/ bladder problems, which requires her to toilet frequently, and her primary school are fully aware of. However, even this school has now implemented a new system whereby children who ask to use the toilet during lesson time have their names noted on the side of the whiteboard. Once they have used the toilet twice in a day, they are discouraged/ told to not use the toilet during lesson time again for the rest of the day.

DD1 is very much a people-pleaser and wouldn't dream of going against this policy despite being aware of her own medical needs.
It wasn't until DD1 suffered the resultant urinary infection this week, that she made us aware of the new school policy. A quick meeting with the teacher after school today has resulted in DD1 being told by her teacher that she is of course allowed to use the toilet as frequently as she needs, but that her name will still be noted down so as not to show favouritism- not entirely pleased with this as DD1 doesn't need to have attention drawn to her by having her name noted 3 or 4 times for the class to see/ her class mates to notice that she is indeed allowed to go more times than them.
Will have a think over the weekend as to what I will be informing the school that they will be doing in regards to my child in future.

Its interesting how many pupils (secondary) seem to forget that they need the toilet, between asking to go to the toilet (being reminded about filling in the permission page) and actually filling in the page.

primaryboodle It sounds like Manchester is leading the way. Clearly it's time for a major rethink in how classrooms are laid out elsewhere.

I am (unfortunately) old enough to remember when hotel rooms didn't have en-suites. If you needed the loo in the night you had to traipse up the corridor to a communal bathroom. Trains haven't always had toilets, and workplaces, entertainment venues and restaurants etc haven't always been as accommodating as they are now, of their patrons' most basic needs. Unthinkable, these days, of course.

So how come schools are back in the dark ages?! The time will come when we can't believe pupils had to raise their hand and wait for permission to go to the toilet...which might be denied! It will astound us that the fundamental necessity of a readily-accessible toilet took so long to be recognised. Too late for the poor lad the OP knows, of course. But perhaps by the time my DD gets to secondary school, she and her peers might be spared such humiliation.

I hope so, because if this ever happens to her, there will be blood.

Ooh primary where's that? go on, give me a clue pm
I am fascinated by academies and how successful they've been (I am no longer in the loop)
I read Collective Spirit and Creative Studio have gone under and Bright Futures were on the verge of losing Cedar Mount.
Which are the success stories? (I remember when Ducie was being converted one of the older pupils said "You can take the kids out of Ducie but not Ducie out of the kids" whatever that meant).

TheBadgersMadeMeDoIt

I hope so, because if this ever happens to her, there will be blood.

Theres the keyboard warrior.

Figuratively speaking, of course! But no, I wouldn't take it lying down and neither would any parent in this thread, I have no doubt.

A small toilet with the door in the classroom sounds horrendous to me. Sound travels! Imagine being in your hall when your friend pops into your downstairs loo.

One of the schools is in a particularly notorious part of Wythenshawe, not sure about the others.

The toilets arent in classrooms, as there arent 'classrooms' - imagine its more like how it would work in an open plan office? The point is that it stopped therw being any issues from a student or teachers perspective with toilets which was where an awful lot of skiving and poor behaviour waa taking place prior to the school being taken over

I am loving the poster who says the poor lad in question may never live down the humiliation, and then suggests the parents go to the newspapers about it!
If fewer of your dcs asked out because they didn't want to waste time in their breaks taking care of bodily functions, or didn't drink bucket loads of water (to justify the bottle flipping), or just fancy a bit of a skive, then it would be that much easier for the children who find themselves with a genuine desperate need to go to be allowed out. Asking to go would be the exception and then there would be little impact in letting those pupils go.

Refusing access to toilets is awful. But in my school I have to - no discretion. A colleague let a student go, was seen by the head and she got bollocked. Students with a medical need are allowed, but otherwise it is a simple no. I (as a classroom teacher) have absolutely no say in this. Every time a student asks to go to the toilet I feel guilty - it just doesn't seem right. another reason I'm leaving this place.

I liked the rule at my old school - tell them to wait 5 mins and ask again, then how ever long they are gone for they had to come back at break / lunch to catch up on work. It put off those who just fancied a wander but allowed those who really needed it to go.

Thought that this would still be covered by the European human rights charter. TM only triggered article 50 the other day!

"If a teenager needs the loo so much after only one hour, you need to investigate why."

When i was at school in the 80s they had the same policies. So we could only go to the loo on breaks and tough shit we had to hold ourselves.

I was diagnosed with an overactive bladder at the age of 21 I sometimes go for a wee 3 or 4 times in an hour (worse if on my period) Dr said it the amount of times i had to hold myself at school is likely to have been the cause.

If this happens to quite a lot of ppl and they develop conditions like this because of these archaic rules then how ARE
they going to cope at work because they WILL need to go to the toilet every hour due to damage caused by holding themselves to adhere to school rules.

If you have a dog or a cat that needs to go to the toilet do you let them out straight away or do you leave it for an hour.

Ive had an overactive bladder for years now. A gift from my high school that just keeps on giving!

I am shocked at the draconian measures put into place by schools concerning access to the toilet, I can totally understand why, as some children have made it hard for everybody else, taking advantage and using the excuse of the toilet, to skive, vandalism, or meet with their friends.

Its a catch 22, yes a teenager should be able to control their bowel or bladder normally, but sometimes it happens that they cannot, and for whatever reason they need to use the toilet urgently. It does not mean they have a medical condition, sometimes bodies play up if the person is stressed, or starting an illness.

I hate this policy. I always ignore it and am often reprimanded by SLT for it, but it just seems so ridiculous to me. 9/10 you can tell which children are making it up and which children genuinely need to go. It is a difficult call but I'd rather risk getting told off by SLT than risk a child having an accident in my lesson.

Just as an aside, I worked in a school which had open plan classroom 'spaces' and it was an absolute nightmare.
I've left now but I hear they have since rebuilt the interior, with walls.

I am shocked at the draconian measures put into place by schools concerning access to the toilet
Me too. I like our "generally no" rule. It leaves some discretion. We tend to say 'ask again in 10 if youre desparate/we've only got 15 mins til the end if you can wait and ill let you nip out a littld early as we pack away'

The problem is some staff dont follow the "usually no" approach and the kids know which members of staff to ask and use it to kill time. That leads to staff being collectively told in staff meetings "thursday afternoon there were loads of kids out of class all going to the toilet. Can we please keep them in class unless its a real emergency!"
This week i had 3 girls all from the same class arrive over 5 mins late because 'sir said we could go to the toilet and he's given us a note for if we're late'. 3 girls, all friends, same day a big fall out happened, all needing the loo at the same time? And he just gave a note.
If that continues i can see us losing our discretion all because some colleagues are total jokes about it.

leccybill:

They are rebuilding virtually all these PFI nightmare school buildings. It is all very well and funky to build these open plan, modern, atrium-style 'learning centres', but when they turn out to be impossible to supervise, prone to mass bullying, ridiculously noisy and educationally pointless, it is the children who lose out. I read an article recently about one of these schools that opened in Knowsley (one of the poorest boroughs in the country and with some of the worst educational outcomes): the kids called it the 'Wacky Warehouse'. All they wanted was a return of structure, rules and walls. Fundamentally, it is a human need to feel safe and secure and classrooms help with this.

Maisy, those type of students make it hard for everybody else, which is bad. So therefore you have the draconian measures in place to try and prevent that, but you might get the student tgat day who cannot control themselves and urgently need the toilet ASAP!

At my dcs secondary school the kids are allowed to go between lessons or during lessons if they ask.so why is that not possible in other schools?

springflowers11:

Did you read the thread? Several teacher (including me) have explained why this isn't desirable in their schools. For me, in my school, we would be putting the kids at risk.

It is a little ironic that I am now stuck in a car, desperate for the loo...

Trifleorbust

I know Knowsley all too well. The 'centres for learning' were an expensive, experimental disaster. You are so right about those kids more than any needing routine and structure around them.

I'm afraid an open plan office with a loo off is the stuff of nightmares for my DD with medical needs. I would hate it too!
One of my children is at a school with open plan areas. It's so noisy you can not hear anything. It's certainly not conducive to learning. The children complain, the staff complain...they built a new extension with walls!