Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

To be fair, in my v large mixed comp I probably get asked about 3 times a week at this stage in term. Students know I refuse unless desperate so don't ask. And obviously are so enjoying the lesson they never want to leave 😂😂.

Oh yes you need to be able to justify your student out of class to a member of SLT too

Horrible experience for this teenager.
Yes to using discretion as well. I'm fine if they don't take advantage - in some classes, some think it may be a free for all if one is allowed. Not sure but the teacher could have made a genuine mistake here but I still think it warrants a discrete apology. Is there a medical reason the teacher should have been aware of as well?

maisy that's a probability not an absolutely 100% method. So sometimes you get it wrong.
The troublemaker is not immune from actually being in need.

I take mobile phones as collateral if students insist they need to go. Then if they are more than a few minutes they and their mobile stay at break time.

Also take mobiles in exchange for pens, other stationary etc. It's reduced my outlay in pens enormously.

I'm so disappointed by the ignorant attitude of a couple of teachers on here. Thankfully they are very much in the minority and there have been many others who have demonstrated compassion and common sense.

maisy that's a probability not an absolutely 100% method. So sometimes you get it wrong.
The troublemaker is not immune from actually being in need

True. But the boy who cried wolf fable comes to mind.
If you want to be believed, tell the truth and dont lie.
I run on trust. If students choose to lie, im much less willing. (Same for discussing friendship fallings out, who said what on social media, why they were in trouble when i get the behaviour points in).

But i work on that principle with people in general. Honesty and trust are valuable traits. Break it and im going to be cynical.

Find as an established member of staff even the 'troublemakers' tend not to try it on regularly because they know where they stand. They are treated fairly because as soon as they stop trying it on, they get the same benefit of the doubt as anyone else.

Haha trifel, those things have happened in class in the residential & secures I have worked in, add hallways, sports fields etc not restricted to toilets. & when I was a kid at a very rough high school before being shipped off to one of the residential sales I later worked at, when these things did happen in toilets or class rooms or else where kids sure as fuck didn't trust the teachers who refused to let them out to the toilets, because those were also the teachers who had no respect for us, we generally disclosed to the one or two who trusted us if we asked to go & who kept their class rooms open for us lunch times and stayed late if we asked for help.

Daisy- I would have been one of your kids who frequently asked to go to the toilet. And probably a trouble maker too, as I skipped alot of class. All due to very heavy bleeding, and i wasn't even lucky enough to have it just monthly, every 3 woks for a good ten days. I gave up trying to go to school when I had my period because of teachers who refused to let me go to the toilet or who mocked or questioned me in front of class because I asked. I used to skip school & go to the libary because I could access the toilet without questions& it was heated unlike my house.

I've just checked on the NHS site and going to the toilet as soon as you need it is listed as a way of preventing urine infections.

But hey some teachers know better than the medical profession clearly.

I actually do think that an incident like the one described would leave the school open to legal action.

WobblyLegs5:

Whether or not they have happened when students are supervised is hardly the issue. Safeguarding students is THE number one priority of my job. Letting them wander round unsupervised and en masse can't be described as anything other than negligent (although the phrase 'fucking stupid' does spring to mind).

willyou
Oh the school I worked in last was full of compassion and allowed the children unfettered access to toilets. We were just to allow them to walk out at will.
Shame the children spent so much time walking round school and very little learning went on!

One kid let out for a quick toilet break isn't en masse or willynilly (what a fucking stupid phrase)

And the op here, as is the thread, discussing one kid repeatedly asking while in pain.

I wet myself aged about 7 or 8 because I asked twice to go to the toilet before we broke up at the end of the day and the teacher wanted me to wait. Asking twice should be a red light and teachers should be sensitive to children jigging, fidgeting and the like and let them go.

I will be giving my DDs similar advice to PPs. If you need to go, ask and go anyway and I'll back them up to deal with the consequences.

I think this is where teaching your kids the difference between following reasonable and unreasonable instructions from adults in authority comes in. We want our kids to be well behaved but it isn't good for kids to be so scared of getting into trouble they blindly do what adults in authority tell them to at all times.
At the more serious end this leaves kids open to abuse. This is the less serious end but it seems like the child was so afraid to use their own common sense and go against the teacher that they willingly publically pooed themselves. That is sad but not surprising as blind following of adult instructions is promoted at every turn in schools (it makes life a lot easier for those in charge).

WobblyLegs5:

Yet letting them out on demand, i.e. when they wish to go, is what many posters seem to be demanding teachers do. So if one student wants the toilet, that's one student wandering the corridor. If every student in my class wants the toilet, that is very much en masse. That is the implication of making it a right and removing adult discretion. It is one of the daftest ideas I have ever heard.

The one and only time I have caused a fuss at school was when my then 6 year old was refused permission to go to the loo and wet herself.

I told the school in no uncertain terms that I found their actions unacceptable and that in future my child would ask once and if refused go anyway, and if they had an issue with this then to speak to me not her.

An adult would never be refused permission to go the loo, so why should a child? There is never a good reason to put anyone in a situation where they will soil themselves.

i just dont get this. i taught for many years in a challenging comp. i just let one student at a time. never a problem.

I think the problem is, a lot of adults come at this from an adult perspective. They need the loo, they go, reasonably. Students don't generally behave as adults.
Imagine in your nice office you pop out to the loo? It's a meeting but hey ho. Fine. You bang the door, make funny faces at the rest of the team causing them to stop listening to the meeting. Then your friend thinks oh i will do the same. A big fuss with the chair, bang the door...two come back three more go...now you've lost your pen...

Children don't always go quickly. Or come back sometimes!

Students don't generally behave as adults

Whilst a fair point I wouldn't expect my DD who had never been in trouble in her life to be not allowed a loo when she needed. Which was my point about teachers being able to discern who is genuine and who isn't!

If they're gone too long Hive, you get the discussion about whether they're "having a shit" too, if you're lucky might just be my year 11s

I remember pooing myself in class when I was 5. It was a very strict Catholic school desperately trying to hang onto the old ways, and there were toilet times. The whole class queued up and went and then you weren't allowed until next toilet time. You didn't dare ask. On the day in question I was developing a stomach bug but had previously had a walloping from the teacher and was afraid of her ☹️ Later on in secondary, break time access to the toilets was policed by prefects who loved to exert power over those at the bottom of the hierarchy by making them wait on the playground until they were bursting. I think some lads used to pee on the field rather than face trying to get in. I thought this kind of nonsense had been relegated to the past where it belongs.

My school had a no toilet breaks during lessons, however, if I was really that desperate, I went anyway and took the row.

I would like to think that students would behave reasonably and not take liberties, but I'm afraid it not like that at all in some schools. So I can understand the policy. As usual, some spoil things for the good students.

Interesting juxtaposition with this current thread: Gary Barlow walks off live show to go to loo

In my line of work I regularly deal with children in various degrees of discomfort, fear and pain. So perhaps I've had the advantage of experience in learning to spot genuine distress. But the child the OP describes gave very clear indications that he was actually struggling. It should have been clear that he wasn't messing about.

Young adolescents often pride themselves on being grown-up and ready to be treated like adults. But when pain, fear or embarrassment are involved (all three, in the OP's case), they are quickly revealed as the children that they still are.

A PP mentioned modern schools being built with a single unisex toilet cubicle in each classroom. If that's true then it's excellent news. No excuse for children to be wandering the corridors or unduly disrupting lesson time, while genuine emergencies can be swiftly resolved. I'd have thought the cost would be prohibitive but since there is now such a huge emphasis on minimising disruption, perhaps it's a price that some local councils are willing to pay.