Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

Can I just point out that holding on doesn't generally cause urine infections.
In fact one if the treatments for urge Incontinence is an attempt at bladder training - holding your wee for longer and longer periods.
Bacteria causes urine infection.

Yes, being a teacher (with a strong union) does mean you have some agency to contest policies that you deem to be unworkable and unfair. "I was just doing what I was told" stopped being an acceptable excuse sometime around 1945 I believe.

Our teens with medical issues have toilet cards and are allowed to go during lessons. Other than that we are supposed to say no, I generally don't allow it, but there are times that you can see the kid needs a wee and say yes, I've had a girl flash a sanpro from up her sleeve "but I neeeeed to"

Ive got IBS and only twice in 4 years have I had to leave a lesson to go to the loo. Conditions like that are manageable for adults, not so much kids.

cardibach, I don't think I would be unreasonable. I honestly don't think it is professional to spend breaks sharing online forums with kids, having a laugh about a 13 year old who has had a horrible experience. I would expect a teacher to be telling kids off about laughing about it not encouraging them.

I cant stand the 'its illegal not to go to the loo' and its sibling "its a human right".
Both piss me off.

Students can go to the loo before school, at break and lunch abd if theyre just nipping for a quick wee then its perfectly possible to nip in on lesson changeover without being late to your next class.

Our school has a 'no toilet breaks in clas policy' wuth flexibility to use discretion. Works weĺl if everyone follows it (e.g. usually good child asks, 'we dont routinely allow toilet breaks, ask again in 10mins' child asks again and they go.)Time wasters often forget that they were "bursting".

The issue is you tend to find thr same students wanting yo go all the time just to get out of class. You also have staff who let every kid who asks out without thought, sometimes multiple students.

Heres the thing to consider, in my school there are roughly 10 classes per year group. 50 classes. If everyone let out someone that's 50 kids wandering site. More if youre one of those teachers who lets multiples out (because youre daft!). That situation doesnt happen because most people follow policies.

The thing that always puzzles me is how many studenys claim to be desparate for the loo but actually sit and down bottles of water in class.

Granny at no time did I even mention the poor 13 year old in this thread to my students. And I have said over and over again that what happened was awful and if it had been me then I would have apologised and felt awful. We were discussing toilet policies not individuals. You are really not a very nice person and one of the reasons teachers are leaving. I will do what the hell i like in my own time and that includes being on my phone even if students are around. During today I also marked 42 PPEs and counselled a student with anxiety. That's on top of teaching 325 students. Hope your day was as fun as mine and produced 325 thank yous.

The arrogance of those of you who declare that no child has EVER had an accident in your classroom from either bladder, bowel or period related issues. Presumably such an assertion is based on the fact that you carried out routine inspections as children left? The child that the OP talks about asked REPEATEDLY to go to the toilet. I seriously can't believe there are so many teachers justifying what happened. Shameful.

I am gobsmacked and horrified that this can be allowed to happen. Its something I might expect of lower-quality Victorian boarding schools but in this day and age...?

Anyone who can't tell the difference between a troublemaker and a child in urgent distress has no business in the teaching profession, and is unfit for a position of responsibility for other people's children.

That poor child might never recover from such humiliation. If the teacher responsible tries to hide behind policy then I would raise hell to get the policy changed. Social services...police...newspapers...whatever it takes.

Afghhhhghghb. Lill it's because we let students go with discretion so they don't have accidents. I also give out my own sanitary products to students who are caught out. We teach teenagers not toddlers and we can see when someone is desperate. So no, accidents don't happen v often in secondary schools because they are run by adults and populated by teens. This sounds like a v rare occurrence and I feel v v bad for the poor student. But never heard of it in any school I have ever worked in - and as you've all said if it did you as parents would complain, so would I.

Hi - been hectic at work today - thanks for the replies. So, no SN or medical condition as far as I know. The child is a sweet, fairly sensitive type of lad, who would be frightened of getting into 'trouble' and I suspect is probably a bit intimidated by the teacher.

I don't know what he's like in school, but it's difficult to imagine him being a regular trouble-maker - he's more the conscientious, quiet type. When he's been at my house I've found him to be quiet and a bit shy but a lovely lad.
Apparently he told the teacher his stomach was hurting, and was clutching him stomach in discomfort - but he was told off for asking and told to stop pulling a face.
So it sounds like either the teacher didn't believe him, or was too scared of breaking the rules to let him go. I'm not sure which situation is more sad and pitiful.

Then if I was the teachers HOD I would reprimand and ensure an apology was issued immediately. Any child in pain should never be denied medical care - that's day one of PGCE. Sounds like a bad day all round

IT could be a troublemaker in urgent distress.
And no, you can't be 100% certain. You can gave a guess but that means sometimes you get it wrong.

Not if like I said it was small wet or blood on pants, if the kid was too embarrassed to tell the teacher they are likely too embarrassed to tell their parents. Doesn't mean it doesn't make them hugely anxious worrying that they might need out in class. I missed a good chunk of my education due to this type of worry.

I am shocked that people can honestly be as naive as some of the posters on this thread. These are your children that teachers are responsible for, and it is our job to keep them safe. If restrictions on going to the toilet during lesson times were removed across the board, including in the roughest areas as well as the 'naive' ones (human rights being for everyone, not just the posh kids) some of your children would be placed in immediate danger. There is no way to police untold numbers of children wandering around a secondary school site when no-one is on duty and the staff are either teaching, in meetings or having PPA time. An off-the-top-of-my-head list of the dangers that this would be placing them at further risk of:

-drugs
-sexual assault
-weapons
-smoking
-bullying
-gang violence
-pornography

These things happen in toilets. A student has just been permanently excluded from my school because he fired an air rifle at someone. He would walk out of lessons at will. He was encouraged to do this by his parents. He could have killed someone.

I cannot believe so many seemingly intelligent people can be so vocal in demanding that children are allowed to be placed at risk, unsupervised and outside the authority of the adults who are responsible for them. Honestly, some of you, half a brain and you would be dangerous.

'naice'

At our secondary all toilet areas are open plan and overlooked Trifle precisely to avoid this. So I'd rather my kids were allowed the loo when they need it thanks.

So no, accidents don't happen v often in secondary schools because they are run by adults and populated by teens. This sounds like a v rare occurrence and I feel v v bad for the poor student. But never heard of it in any school I have ever worked in - and as you've all said if it did you as parents would complain, so would I.
This.
And you can tell when a girl has been caught off guard by her period arriving because they generally give a variation on a single look whcih is code for "like NEED to". What woman hasnt come on unexpectedly? We all know that feeling.

We have discretion and exercise it. Those situatoons are totally different to the students who are known for trying it on.

Telling studenta to ask again in 10 mins is usually a good way of working out who actually needs it. People trying it on forget and if they sit downing bottles of water thej no way are they going.

badger do tell the test that distinguishes a troublemaker from one in distress? Remember 100% proven accuracy with no false positives!

Lots of newer build secondaries have unisex (i.e. standalone room with sink etc inside it like a disabled toilet) coming off the wall or in classrooms to solve this problem

BarbarianMum:

I am not against this where it is possible, Barbarian. Good for your kids. But it absolutely would not be appropriate in my school, where the toilets are like normal public toilets. Same in all three schools I have worked in.

You don't need to thank me.

I once had a student walk out of my class in a paddy and promptly fall down 2 flights of stairs. Fortunately I had called for SLT the minute she left so she was found within minutes. But say she'd gone to the toilet and done the same - I wouldn't have known for 5 minutes until realised she hadn't returned. And guess whose fault that would be ?

What a nightmare.
It won't help the poor kid but I would imagine the teacher has had a thorough bollocking behind the scenes.
Here's the thing. Senior management say Don't let kids go to the toilet in lesson time.
This is what we are told. In staff debriefs it comes up as an ongoing issue.
With certain staff kids know not to ask. With supply/newbies/staff seen as "soft"/ kids will ask. Some are genuine, others not. You can't tell the difference.
Kids with a medical problem have a toilet pass.
I used to let kids out as I deemed it to be better safe than sorry. It did mean you let one, you have to let three go though. Got me into hassle on a couple of occasions. But on one occasion when I had said you can wait 5 minutes til break a parent complained...no incident had occurred but nonetheless I got a bollocking from the head and told to use my judgement. So...damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I would have expected the teacher to have apologised to the student in private.
If they haven't then I suspect HOY has said not to, so as not to mortify poor kid further.

Headofthehive55
Professional discretion. Knowing your kids.

Kid A always on time, doesnt sit downing bottles of water, doesnt arrive to class asking to go to the loo every other lesson. Probably genuine.

Kid B, turns up 5 mins late because theyve been "at the toilet", turns up asking to go, asks to go as soon as the written/independent work, their learning journal page for leaving class is all filled in, they are known for regularlu trying to get out of wkrk, tend to sit downing bottles and then conplains aboit being "desparate" 20mins after lunch break. Probably a wind up.

Thats before you get copycat toilet requests. One person gets a yes and suddenly you get another y who need it "cab I go when sam, dillon, sophie gets back'. That usually happens when you first get a class. Once they know youre fair but dont have little wander toilet trips you end up only really getting real requests as the time wasters dont bother asking after a while and thr genuine cases know youre fair

On the strength of this thread I have just asked a friend at the school my DD is likely to go to in a couple of years. They too adopt an open door policy and allow kids to use the loo as needed.

Am very grateful for the compassionate policy makers!

I think there is a variety of schools.
My DDs private school, rarely did girls need to leave the classroom - they were interested in learning and had no interest in messing around. Free access to toilets.
Not all schools are like this. Not all students are sat there sensibly only asking for the loo when absolutely in need.
Rules for one don't suit the other always.