Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

Good to know I'm a crap teacher. Because on my day off I spend 6 hours giving my time to help students get better results. They didn't have to come, no charge was made and it was totally voluntary. But hey, I'm obviously awful at my job because, in my breaks, on my day off, I was on my phone (as were the 325 students who seemed to want to put me on their snapchat stories). During the breaks I was also talking to my students and discussing you lot, Brexit, MIC & biscuits with them. I believe it's called conversation.
Ah well. To those who remember the good old days when there were patrols of loos well we don't have spare staff anymore to do that. Everyone is teaching pretty much full timetables so no one left to check loos.
Right I might head home to my own teenagers. Hope everyone sorts their toilet problems out and enjoys driving more teachers out of the profession from being rude. Because, just so you know, lots of classes will v soon not be taught by one because there aren't enough left. Happy Easter

mistressiggi you're another one who has been very lucky not to be affected. Illness aside, you don't go from "didn't need" to "absolutely bursting" in 15 minutes Believe me, it happens

There's plenty of times when I was still in primary school where i bled onto my pants (through tampon & pad) & didn't tell the teachers. So there's a good chance teachers not knowing accidents have happenned isn't evidence of lesser accidents. A bit of pee on pants under a skirt or a jumper tied round waist to cover a blood stain isn't that abnormal for kids to deal with minor accidents. Bloody humiliating and very cruel if it's happened because a teacher didn't let them out.

If you replace 'child' with adult with learning distabilises or adult in a wheelchair and the carers refese to help them to the toilet then I suspect there would be outrage.

All schools I have worked in have a no loo in lesson time policy. I've always ignored it and let pupils go if I feel they are desperate. But that has ended up with me getting in trouble before when SLT have found pupils in the loos during lesson time. So really that teacher would just have been following orders from above.

Illness aside, you don't go from "didn't need" to "absolutely bursting" in 15 minutes.
Isn't that rather the point? Often going from "didn't need" to "absolutely bursting" in 15 minutes is the first sign of an illness coming on.

I am going to remember what posters have said about telling your children to just go if they are desperate and have explained and it's still refused. Anything else is utterly inhumane, whatever the legal situation, and whatever the discipline issues. Hopefully they'll have teachers with decent professional judgement and not need to but if not, disobeying a teacher is a better outcome than soiling yourself.

Honestly, putting the teacher's refusal aside for a moment I have to wonder what kind of child who has reached secondary school knows they are going to soil themselves but still just accepted the "no" from the teacher till they got the point of doing it in class. The OP didn't indicate that the child in question had any kind of ASD or SN that would mean they were reluctant/unable to overrule the teacher's authority but I know of no NT child who wouldn't rather risk getting in trouble for running out of the room to try and get to the bathroom in time despite being refused permission than soil themselves in the classroom.

I was a very painfully shy child in school and on the one and only occasion I remember needing to go to the loo in class (since I and most of my peers all managed to go before/after school and in break/lunch and rarely needed to go in class time) I asked the teacher's permission but they said no as I should have gone at break and they were still explaining something so I would have to wait until an, as yet unspecified, later point in the lesson... when I realised I was physically not going to be able to wait I got up from my seat and ran out of the classroom as my teacher shouted at me for disrupting the class and ignoring her refusal. When I returned I went to the teacher and quietly, and rather embarrassedly, apologised for disrupting the lesson but explained that I had had a physical and uncontrollable urge to go right that second and had no choice but to leave or risk wetting myself in my seat. Unsurprisingly on that occasion the teacher understood that it had been an emergency situation and let me off. There is no way on earth I would have sat there and wet myself if I had even the smallest chance of getting to a bathroom, even if it meant defying the teacher to do it.

It's not necessarily an illness coming on, sometimes you just need a poo FFS!

This s something which makes me really mad. I have been a teacher and head of year. There are always kds who go to the loo to make trouble, but why should others be punished because of that. Teachers know the trouble makers so they should only get 5 mins one at a time. No child should be refused permission to go to the loo.

You are more polite than me too, I would have said something.

Twenty- 1 or 2 yrs to get to grips with periods! Took me 10 atleast!

regarding being taken short..of course it happens. mostly with wetting yourself...but all is possible..and some kids are very scared of defying authority.

if any school has a no loo visits during lessons policy, it should be raised with governors.

wobbly, I mentioned it in a roundabout way in the next parents evening I went to (asked policy for going to the toilet). Without directly overruling the teachers in front of the whole class which would have been incredibly professionally disrespectful I couldn't say anything. My session finished then straight into the next activity for the DC while I was tidying up ifswim.

If it happened again though I would speak to the teacher at the end of the day, I agree I was too polite. That's the crux of it I guess isn't it, that we all make mistakes.

Actually (sorry for double post) that is me minimising it. Yes, next time I would hang around in the room and speak to somebody out of earshot of the children.

"Teachers know the trouble makers so they should only get 5 mins one at a time".

I'm just imagining how that would go down in a classroom- "no you can't go because you're a trouble maker". Hmm

if any school has a no loo visits during lessons policy, it should be raised with governors

All whole school policies have to ratified by governors so they are already aware of it

I don't work with my kids teachers so for me it wouldn't be unprofessional, but I would loudly publicly tell the kid that it was bad to hold onto pee if they need to go. My kids teachers are amazing though & would never do that, but that's part of teaching kids with send.

I allways think it's really important that kids hear adults willing to stick up for them, how they learn to stick up for themselves. But then I worked with abused children so any possibility of reinforcing their right to bodily autonomy was very important. At one residential and several secure units we restrained children, in the restraints training it was allways taught that it should be a last resort, only to prevent direct harm to the child, another child or staff. Yet often staff stepped in and restrained children for control rather than last resort, twice when this was about to happen I challenged them in front of the child and prevented it. It's important that children know people will stand up for them in my line of work.

Jayfee policies will all have been agreed by the governors. They will know. No need to raise it with them.

I'm a teacher, and used to teach in a rough school where kids repeatedly asked to be let out to go to the toilet, and would use it as an excuse to meet their mates and skive off. I still didn't feel comfortable saying no, so I used to tell the kids to ask me again in 10 minutes if they still needed to go. Most of the time, they forgot that they needed, but the genuine ones were able to go.

Also Jayfee - re the troublemakers: having let them out, how is the teacher going to enforce them returning in 5 mins? Troublemakers don't tend to follow instructions being, you know, troublemakers. They'll go for as long as they want. Smoke if they want. Vandalise possibly. Or just skive and then disrupt the lesson in their return.

Oh and despite working with many kids who were very dangerous there was never a restriction on toilets. There were only one toilet options (due to many safety reason) though, so best they could get was mucking about in hallways in front of alot of s/w staff & a senior manager or 2.

Has the OP been back?

We have a policy in our school (secondary) of only allowing pupils out during certain times outwith break and lunch.

If a child has a documented medical condition (we are expected to know about that as with all additional needs of the pupils in front of us) then they are permitted to go at any time.

Taking all that into account we are allowed to use a certain discretion if we perceive genuine need.

And perhaps this teacher just made a very human error - which doesn't help the pupil in this case. Poor kid.

I can't believe someone suggested calling the police - words fail me.

And no, I cannot just walk out of the class if I need the loo - I would have to arrange for a passing colleague to stand in for a few minutes I I happened to spot one in the corridor.

Teenagers would certainly not behave (what a laugh) and I'd be in for a reprimand at the very least if I left a class unattended.

I don't think anyone has answered what teachers should do about the fact that their bosses tell them not to allow children out (unless they have a medical pass), or about the fact that the numbers wanting out can be into double figures. Hell if I could leave the room for five minutes for a bit of a break I would too.

how is the teacher going to enforce them returning in 5 mins?

And they stroll back in twenty minutes later saying "I was HAVING A POO"

What annoys me is when one kid asks to go to the toilet, a good kid, so you let them go, then immediately another kid asks. "You only want to go because I let Elliott go" "no miss, I'm BUSTING, you want me to WET MYSELF right here??"

It must be more common than we think as there have been a few threads about older children finding themselves in this situation.

If my s/w managers told me to do something that I felt was abusive or neglectful I would stand up to them. Pressumabley teachers can do the same, & point out they don't want to subject a kid to peeing or shitting themselves in class or a girl getting mocked for life cause she had blood on her skirt (& let's face it this would mostly be from boys). If police officer did something wrong the my boss told me too defense wouldn't wash, imagine the public outrage? Teachers can have a mind of their own too.