AIBU? Neglect? Fraud?

[Shwangalangadingdong]

My parents live with my grandmother, and have done for the last ten years. My DGM is 89, my DM is 64 and my DD is 66.

My parents don't pay rent or bills and have a substantial property which is attached to my DGM's house which is their private area. They go away a three times a year for a total of 12 weeks, and while away spend a lot of money of luxury items. I'd guess they spend around £25000 a year on all this and this has been going on for the last 8-9 years.

Neither of them work or have done for the last ten years. I don't know exactly what their personal income is but they have standard pensions from a government employer which have only just started and I have no idea what their income was previous to this.

They make meals and do basic housekeeping for my DGM but have never had anything more challenging to deal with other than a couple of hospital visits due to falls she has had in the last year and small tasks occasionally.

DGM broke her ankle after falling down just after they left for a five week cruise. My brother went round to visit her and found that she had been suffering at home for 24 hours after she broke her ankle. She ended up in hospital for 3 weeks and was only allowed home when my DM and DF got home. My brother and me visited her while she was in hospital and helped to get her home. We love her very much and we were happy she was back at home.

We both have other caring, family and work commitments so do not have much free time but have offered to house sit my parents house to keep an eye and be around but they won't let either of us stay or even have a key for emergencies. It's a remote isolated house so that makes it harder.

Our parents returned and immediately told us both that they are going on a safari in October for 5 weeks. My brother and me decided that we would no longer be prepared to cover up our parents lavish lifestyle to my DGM anymore if they are prepared to go away and leave her in danger again. We have questioned between ourselves how they can afford all this stuff for years but have been persuaded by our parents to keep it a secret from my DGM in order to keep the peace.

So we told our parents that we are not prepared to keep the trips and the other money stuff a secret from our DGM anymore. We have said that they cannot leave her again without any support. They have already implied to her that me and DBRO were trying to get her put into a home while they were away. We feel like they are threatening her with this subtly as she wants to her to stay in her own house until she dies, and she told us her wishes over and over again while she was in hospital. We want this for her as well she is very happy there.

We are worried that she is in a vulnerable position living with them and want to help her. We think it's possible that my parents have been defrauding and / or bullying her in some way and if we bring it up with DGM that she will be extremely upset and hurt and in a very difficult position. However she is extremely bright and lived through a lot worse and very capable of sorting out an issue if there is one - for now anyway.

So we have contacted DGM to arrange to meet up with and gently try and find out if there's any worries on her side, but she has said she's too busy and there's a lot going on. In the meantime our parents have said they have everything sorted out and we needn't bother ourselves anymore. It feels like they're isolating her from us and now I'm even more concerned about her.

I am posting to ask for advice before I contact adult safeguarding or social services as I'm not even sure that's going to be in GM best interest long term

Did your brother meet up with them OP? Sounds like they are isolating you because you've cottoned on to them.

I would tread slowly, quietly and gather evidence.

Are you prepared to fall out with your parents? If so call adult safegurading and say you suspect your dgm is being taken advantage off.

Did you parents have high paying jobs when they were working or a private pension-- that is funding this lifestyle?

When they go on holiday you can suggest they call a nursing/care agency and hire a community carer who will come everyday even just for 1 hour im the morning to help her out.. This way if she has had a fall or health issues during the night she is never left for too long as a carer would come in the morning

The thing is everything is speculation but in reality, these are the things that could be happening.

Loans taken out on your dgm's name or against her house

Credit cards in dgm name

Her bank account/savings being used without her knowledge

No money for her care when she is no longer able

No more progress. I'm still waiting for a copy of DGF's will to see if that throws any light on the situation.

It's my 'other' parents - my DF and Stepmother who bought a cheap house with their early retirement payoff. My DM and Stepdad did not make anything on the sale of their last property when they moved in with my grandparents.

My Dbro has had a few emails saying a lot of strange stuff such as we are not welcome there anymore and that we have both said we want 'nothing to do with DGM's care' which is obviously untrue. This situation arose as we were worried about her care.

They have said that the money for hols is their own and it's none of our business where it comes from.

The kind of holidays are usually long haul first class return flights then a tour of the country / area. They have in the last 10 yrs since my DGF died been all over the world - Africa, South America, Australia, NZ, Northern Europe and Asia.

If it really is their money then we are quite pissed off that they plead povrty to the extent that they never give their children or grandchildren more than £10 for birthdays / Christmas. At Christmas my DGF always buys most of the the food.

Apart from a text message they completely ignored my DBro's birthday a few days after they got back. They are tight as a duck's arse and my DGM has expressed dismay to us at their general lack of support towards us not just financially but in all areas.

My Dbro will carry on contacting our DGM but I am not for now as my motives are obviously seen as suspicious

Really hope you get to the bottom of all of this for your grandmother's sake. It must be so worrying for you xxx

Are these strange messages vis a vis your dgm's care coming via text or email? I really think yo should reply to them indignantly. "You know that is not true, why do you say that?" And so on. Cover your arse, as they say. You have no idea what is in their heads, and they may be showing thm your dgm (or even a lawyer). In both cases it is important that you have proof that you have denied their accusations.

It all sounds very worrying but I'm not sure what you can do. It sounds as though they will plough through your grandmothers inheritance as soon as she passes away and unless her will says otherwise, you are powerless.

My suspicions are that your grandfather left a substantial amount in a savings account that they have access to and have been using as their own money. I suspect they are hoping your grandmother will die in time for them to sell the house and free up another chunk of money to see them through their old age.

The messages are from my DPs to my DBro. I have also read them and have been accused of not caring about my DGM. Also that my DBro should stay away from me as I'm a horrible person. I haven't contacted DGM yet as I'm very worried that they have told her all sorts of lies about me and to let them know if I contact her i.e. They will be reading anything I send

Oh right. Well, I think your brother should be denying it all swiftly, including the ridiculous idea that you're an awful person. He doesn't have to do much, just "that's not what I have experienced/not what I think/not a fair acvusation" etc.

My dgm lived with us, she had helped my parents buy the house by lending them something towards the deposit. This was in the early 60s. She lived with us until a year before she died, as my aunt had insisted dgm go to live with her and her needs had become more than my parents could cope with, especially as they both worked ft.

When dgm died (in a nursing home my (nurse, but not working) aunt had put her in after only 2months of having her with her, some of my uncles and my aunt suggested that my parents' house was partly theirs because dgm had lent my parents some of the money. It was quite worrying, until my mum's solicitor pointed out that mum had cared for dgm for over 30 years, thus saving my uncles and aunt hundreds of thousands in care home fees. My relatives shut up about it then.

What I am thinking of is that your dm may be thinking that as long as she lives there she is saving your dgm care home fees, and if she can alienate you all she will cop the lot. If she can show that you and dbro want nothing to do with dgm then she will be in a much stronger position, either in getting dgm to agree to change her Will in dm's favour cutting you both out, or in arguing that she should be recompensed accordingly once probate is sought. If your bro can answer texts etc saying their accusations are untrue then he weakens dm's position, should she be playing that sort of long game.

I'm probably being paranoid, and projecting my own experience. I must say, my mother's siblings were the last people any of is expected to behave like that (to the day she died, my mum insisted that one of my uncle's wives had put them up to it). They all got on so well and clearly loved and trusted each other, and this transmitted throughout my generation too, it was enitrely gobsmacking and unbelievable.

Jux that's awful. I can't believe that people would throw away their family relationships over money like this. It's heartbreaking. As it stands I am going to lose any relationship I had with my DGM as well as my DPS over this.

Yes, it was extraordinary. Even more so though, was that mum and dad forgave them and remained on good terms.

Does your mum have any siblings whom you take into your confidence?

Surely your parents wouldn't mind your sons gf popping in each day (if she could) as she's a carer? Or another carer you know personally? With an offer of paying of course. Surly that's a win win situation as gm will get looked after and actually gets to see someone everyday and no risk of being conned. Something fishy is going on!!

Op I think in your position, I would rather have my brother allowed access to the house/dgm than not even if it meant he needed to side with his parents to their faces.

my ex in-laws did something similar to Jux. 9yrs on & despite inheriting a large sum of money ex fil has continued to accuse other members of the family of 'killing his mum'. She opened her will early to avoid problems & he kicked off when she died 6mth later. All because he thought he should've inherited everything! Horrendous, disgusting excuse for a human being

Weather bomb that's awful too. This makes me really sad that it's so common. It honestly never occurred to me that something was up until I heard their awful responses to our very genuine concern. They have also said regarding holidays that if DGM found out where they were really on holiday 'it would kill her'. It's actually making me really worry now.

Jux they wouldn't even give me a key to their flat for one night to make sure DGM had someone there until DPs got back. They could have actually got back a day earlier and been home themselves but they stayed an extra away instead of drive 5 hours to get home. Mum has no siblings it just myself and DBro, my DPS and my teenage kids that are all the close living family she has left.

I agree that my DBro should keep the door open but they are very manipulative so that also worries me

What I am going to do though is email her tomorrow and hope I hear back

Shwang I wonder if you and DBro could contact the Police to do a Welfare Visit to DGM. If it was me I would expect DBro to come with me to the Police Station or meet Police with me. If you both explain your worries and fears for DGM and explain the changes in the Lifestyle of mum and stepdad since moving to DGM.
I would also ask Police advice about what DBro should do about the car keys. Meanwhile He should just not be able to find them.
The arrival of the Police will make the parents sit up and take notice and also it may give DGM the confidence and courage to speak to Police Officers in uniform with a marked car outside. There are officers in the police who can track money which may have been misused. You and DBro could also meet together to speak to SS about Adult Safeguarding and advise SS that you have spoken with Police. Police would contact SS if they feel suspicious.
I would hope that if I was in DGM situation some of my DGC would speak up for me.
Hoping you can help DGM

I second the adult safeguarding team, I have recently been on the oposite end of a similar issue as my grandmothers carer and been reported maliciously by agreed spiteful family members, I found the adult safeguarding team to be very thorough and efficient. I would suggest you put your concerns in writing, they will investigate everything you say from neglect of your grandmother to financial abuse and nd even check where your parents are funding these trips from.

Your DB needs to respond to each irrational email stating the truth calmly - granted it's very boring to do so. You want any paper trail to support your version.

Any news Schwang? Were you able to get your Fil's will?

Hope the situation has improved

Hope the situation has improved

What was the outcome of the situation? Did you ever see the will or make contact with your grandmother?