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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU? Neglect? Fraud?

148 replies

Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 01:49

My parents live with my grandmother, and have done for the last ten years. My DGM is 89, my DM is 64 and my DD is 66.

My parents don't pay rent or bills and have a substantial property which is attached to my DGM's house which is their private area. They go away a three times a year for a total of 12 weeks, and while away spend a lot of money of luxury items. I'd guess they spend around £25000 a year on all this and this has been going on for the last 8-9 years.

Neither of them work or have done for the last ten years. I don't know exactly what their personal income is but they have standard pensions from a government employer which have only just started and I have no idea what their income was previous to this.

They make meals and do basic housekeeping for my DGM but have never had anything more challenging to deal with other than a couple of hospital visits due to falls she has had in the last year and small tasks occasionally.

DGM broke her ankle after falling down just after they left for a five week cruise. My brother went round to visit her and found that she had been suffering at home for 24 hours after she broke her ankle. She ended up in hospital for 3 weeks and was only allowed home when my DM and DF got home. My brother and me visited her while she was in hospital and helped to get her home. We love her very much and we were happy she was back at home.

We both have other caring, family and work commitments so do not have much free time but have offered to house sit my parents house to keep an eye and be around but they won't let either of us stay or even have a key for emergencies. It's a remote isolated house so that makes it harder.

Our parents returned and immediately told us both that they are going on a safari in October for 5 weeks. My brother and me decided that we would no longer be prepared to cover up our parents lavish lifestyle to my DGM anymore if they are prepared to go away and leave her in danger again. We have questioned between ourselves how they can afford all this stuff for years but have been persuaded by our parents to keep it a secret from my DGM in order to keep the peace.

So we told our parents that we are not prepared to keep the trips and the other money stuff a secret from our DGM anymore. We have said that they cannot leave her again without any support. They have already implied to her that me and DBRO were trying to get her put into a home while they were away. We feel like they are threatening her with this subtly as she wants to her to stay in her own house until she dies, and she told us her wishes over and over again while she was in hospital. We want this for her as well she is very happy there.

We are worried that she is in a vulnerable position living with them and want to help her. We think it's possible that my parents have been defrauding and / or bullying her in some way and if we bring it up with DGM that she will be extremely upset and hurt and in a very difficult position. However she is extremely bright and lived through a lot worse and very capable of sorting out an issue if there is one - for now anyway.

So we have contacted DGM to arrange to meet up with and gently try and find out if there's any worries on her side, but she has said she's too busy and there's a lot going on. In the meantime our parents have said they have everything sorted out and we needn't bother ourselves anymore. It feels like they're isolating her from us and now I'm even more concerned about her.

I am posting to ask for advice before I contact adult safeguarding or social services as I'm not even sure that's going to be in GM best interest long term

OP posts:
Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 15:02

It's my DGF s will. He died in 2003 never seen his will or received any inheritance

OP posts:
Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 15:11

I'm getting a copy to see if there's a possibility he left them a large amount of cash. As far as I'm aware it all went to DGM. DM was executor

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/03/2017 15:12

Before probate?

I see what you mean, procrastinator - obviously the Probate Office can't issue a copy of a will before they've even dealt with it - but I thought it was the GF's will which OP wants to see?

Come to think of it I'm not sure if Shwang said how long he's been gone, but I'd imagine his will is done and dusted by now?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/03/2017 15:14

Sorry, Shwang - I see I cross posted with you Blush

Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 15:18

They are demanding that my Dbro tell them everything my DGM has said to us that they have to see him, and they don't want to see me for a 'very long time' so far Dbro is standing with me on this but I'm afraid that I'm just going to be scapegoated in all this now

OP posts:
FabricFabric · 30/03/2017 15:19

OP. You said your parents were both civil servants who left around 10 years ago but before retirement? Is that right? If so it's possible they left under voluntary early release. Back before 2010 the payoff packages were very generous. I've known people who left with a compensation package of 100k plus depending on length of service. In addition to that they would have protected final salary pensions and lump sums when they reached retirement age. So if they took voluntary early release I can well imagine they are much better off than you think and could easily be funding this travel themselves. I would guess that that's where the money is coming from. Even if they weren't senior level, I've known middle managers who came out with 80-90k as compensation prior to 2010

SquinkiesRule · 30/03/2017 15:24

Earlier you said that your parents have POA, even if they do, it doesn't kick in until your GM no longer has capacity. If she has capacity she can do as she pleases, whether the choices are considered wise or not.
I wonder if they have told her now they have POA she has to do as they say as they are in charge.
I'd get GF's will see what is in it. It sounds like their either got one of those 100k payouts or they are fleecing her.

Procrastinator1 · 30/03/2017 15:35

I see, Puzzled, a gift from the GF's will might explain the DM's financial position.

I hope OP gets to the bottom of it and her GM is OK.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/03/2017 15:38

so far Dbro is standing with me on this but I'm afraid that I'm just going to be scapegoated in all this now

Overall scapegoating can only happen if you and your DB aren't close, which happily doesn't seem to be the case. He's also doing the right thing in standing by you, for more reasons than you perhaps think - if anything odd is happening, the only sensible thing to do, IMO, is to be absolutely straight about things and to do it together

I believe Fabric makes a good point about possible pay-offs - but then why do they seem so worried about what GM may have said to you? Hmm

Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 15:48

Also if they had received pay offs they would not have moved in with DGM as they have admitted that they couldn't afford another property after the last one one sold with no equity remaining

OP posts:
Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 15:50

Sorry meant to say! My DF and step mum had almost the same positions (weird I know) and still work FT to make ends meet they did buy a v small property abroad with the early retirement package which cost them around £25000 at around the same time my parents sold their place and took early retirement

OP posts:
Shwangalangadingdong · 30/03/2017 16:04

Puzzle I really hope so but DM has form for separating us and playing one off against the other. He seems to be aware of this now.

I think they seem worried because they are controlling of her and want to know if anything has been found out but that's a guess

OP posts:
Frazzled2207 · 30/03/2017 17:26

Understand that your dbro wants you to come but if they won't budge could he go anyway and have it out with them? And would you trust him to report back whatever the outcome?

YoumeandlittleP · 30/03/2017 17:28

I can really empathise with you OP. I have been in a similar situation with my own DGM and it still isn't resolved.

There wasn't as much in the way of money that you're talking about but our issues have been about emotional abuse. It's absolutely heartbreaking too because my Db and I would love to have her live with us but she's too scared to leave them.

My DGM have lived through so much, multiple cancers, my grandad dying, having to move away from everything she knew and is now more miserable than she's ever been and talks frequently about how she's just sat waiting to die. Seriously, it breaks my heart.

Anyway, my DB and I ended up getting social services involved and we both knew that we would be disowned once they found out it was us. It was a risk worth taking, but they kept it anonymous anyway. My DGM told SS that she was perfectly happy...which she admitted to me after was a lie. So my parents have turned an incredibly independent and amazing woman into some manipulated brow beaten, fragile old lady.

I'm not too sure where I'm going with this really. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone and what you're doing it completely right, even if it means some horrible times with your DM. You and your DB are sticking together which is amazing. Would it be wise to see what your DM has to say? So you can weigh up the situation a little more. They are clearly acting very suspiciously indeed.

QuiteLikely5 · 30/03/2017 17:41

Unfortunately by going along with the holiday deceit you have been complicit in your parents actions.

I would be telling them you want to see dgm and if they refuse that you are calling SS and police

NotaSnowflake · 30/03/2017 18:51

Go round there and DEMAND to see DGM. Refuse to leave until you do. Make sure you repeat several times that you "Are NOT putting her in a home - Not on yours or DBRO's watch" Make her realise she can trust you... x

NotaSnowflake · 30/03/2017 19:09

You say DM was executor of the Will? Well an Executor cannot be a beneficiary of the same Will

ShotgunNotDoingThePans · 30/03/2017 19:24

Don't know if anyone's suggested this already, but is it possible your GM is 'gifting' them money now in order to reduce the inheritance tax bill after she dies? Still doesn't make the lack of care and lying about holidays right, but might explain your parents' lifestyle.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/03/2017 19:33

an Executor cannot be a beneficiary of the same Will

This is a common misconception, but I think you'll find it's witnesses who (usually) can't be beneficiaries too

Procrastinator1 · 30/03/2017 19:36

A beneficiary can be an executor of a will as long as they don't charge for their services.

turnaroundbrighteyes · 30/03/2017 19:50

Tbh in your shoes I'd ask DB to play along, pretend to be fobbed off by whatever they tell him, etc so that he can at least be around to make sure you dgm is okay. Then he can reassure dgm that neither of you want to put her in a home and when your dp's go on holiday you will have plenty of time to spend with your dgm without your parents around and get to the bottom of what's going on.

My fear would be that of you push too hard right now you'll get totally shut out and you dgm, being of sound mind, could do something to weaken her position legally when it all comes out.

NinonDeLanclos · 30/03/2017 21:18

I agree, I would get DB to go along and see what they're up to.

cailyaclara · 30/03/2017 22:28

I agree with your brother going along. Then at least he can hopefully quietly let your grandmother know you only want to support her and then you can both go and see her when your mum goes off on her jolly.

Falafelings · 31/03/2017 07:34

Long shot but is there anyway that the small 25k property brings in a rental income for your parents? Also could the holidays be more like 12k? What sort of holidays are they having?

Falafelings · 31/03/2017 07:35

Yes I think it's best just to pretend to be fobbed off and then do undercover research