Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

Lambzig shame that you couldn't get DD to accidentally on purpose throw up over nasty passenger

Thanks, DD is 7 now and DS now 4 is generally much more horrifically behaved at every stage, but I still shudder remembering that flight.

somethingborrowed i take your point, and agree with you about kicking/ actively annoying other passengers etc but some kids are much easier to 'train' to sit still than others. We do all of the things you mentioned with our kids, and have done pretty consistently since they could sit up. One of them is great at entertaining himself and sits still happily for long periods of time. The other finds it genuinely incredibly difficult to sit still (even with all the training.) What works for one kid doesn't necessarily work for another. Some pp's have complained about kids trying to get out of their seats, walking down the aisle ofthe plane etc. I think as long as the parent is actively trying to do their best to keep the child entertained/ distracted and behaving well, then people should be tolerant and generous about it too and accept that it isn't always that simple.

daniel true, I only talk from my experience with my 2. I accept there is a part of how the child is generally.
And I agree with you, if the parent is actively trying then we all have to accept some noise/movement

Why should paying passengers be tolerant? Why should I not sleep or rest on a long haul flight because of a noisy and badly behaved child? If your child can't behave then don't take them on a plane ( family funerals and package holiday flights excepted).

crumbs because we are all human beings and have to balance our varying and competing needs to live in a society together. I have taken my kids on long haul flights for all kinds of reasons including some pretty awful/ tragic ones (never on holiday.) I do my very best not to annoy anyone, and to keep them distracted/ busy/ behaving but it doesn't always work. And I hope people would recognise that and be generous about it, as I would be with others in circumstances that were not ideal for my optimum comfort but someone was doing their best. No different from anywhere else in life really.

So a minor inconvenience for 12 or so hours of your life (and presumably not for the whole 12 hours, since no baby/toddler/child kicks off for the whole time) means you believe we should have thought when offered a great job overseas: "Mmm, better not do it as our children might cry on a plane and annoy someone"? Jesus wept. People are staggeringly self-obsessed. Anyone can pay to fly on a plane. You might be next to a guy with a terrible cough or someone who gets drunk or someone who snores or a crying child. That's life. You're not paying for a peaceful relaxing experience. It's not a spa. You're paying to be transported from A to B as is everyone else on the plane. Sometimes a journey is great. Sometimes it's a bit shit. The idea that families with young children shouldn't travel to see friends or family because a few hours of someone else's life might not be mildly inconvenienced is extraordinary.

Some real jerks on here today. The "children should be seen but not heard" crowd. Though just seeing children sends a shiver down the spine apparently. Do you realise you were all once children? You know, actual human being with emotions and thoughts all of your own?

I think a PP summed it up when they said as soon as they see a child get on they hope they won't be sitting near them. People just make their minds up kids will be awful and the parents "entitled" with no evidence at all, then tsk at every little noise and bump.

Pay to move up a class or accept that you're going to be in close contact with other humans for a while. It is public transport. Do you get this emotional on a train? If so it's not the kids that aren't fit to be out.

Fwiw my kid was an absolute dream flying. Still didn't stop the woman in front clicking her tongue loudly when he accidentally bumped her seat twice only. Would she have done that had it been an adult? I seriously doubt it.

I have been around enough children to know that some are just impossible to contain despite the parents best efforts, yet they too have a right to move about the planet.

OP, for all you know the parents thought the grandma would be reading books and playing games and looking after the toddler when they had a sleep. They might have been mortified when they found out, or have never found out at all. I do wonder if the real reason you're so upset is because the dad nabbed the aisle for a nap instead of you. 😆

iwasjustabouttosaythat perfectly put. Really shocked at some of the posters today. Especially if they are parents themselves. Have their kids never ever behaved badly and embarrassed them/ annoyed someone despite their best efforts? If so, then they are lucky rather than brilliant parents.

I think that generally YANBU because the child's mother was asleep so wasn't trying to stop him from disturbing other people.

One problem with flights is that there isn't really enough space - they cram in so many people. This has reminded me of last year when there was a family next to us on the plane. Their toddler spent the whole time walking up and down the middle of the plane, dropping his stuff all over the floor and annoying the cabin crew. He didn't bother me at all. But his dad had this massive case full of sweets and chocolate (only) and he must have got up and down and shoved his bum in my face at least a dozen times with this bloody case. I hate flying generally.

I was with a howling 4 month year old, who o couldn't settle because the plane couldn't take off because of a twat across from me arguing. He shouted at me to shut the fucking baby up. I got upgraded (next to a lovely lady) and the option of getting him kicked off the plan. Oh and champagne and an apology in person from the captain!

Indaba as your flights were for work I suspect you weren't travelling on the popular holiday routes, so I'm not sure the other passengers on your flights are the typical passengers we are talking about here.

deliverdaniel I would be happy to see a parent walking their toddler about a plane to keep them quiet and occupied. The crying and screaming is unpleasant, but I understand that you can't control that. It's the seat kicking that enrages other passengers.

OP - was this flight coming from UAE?

Everyone who has said this should be the tile of a film - LOVE IT!

But actually you can't walk a toddler up and down the plane the whole time. It's difficult during trolley service and it's impossible during turbulence. So even if you walk the toddler up and down for as many hours as you can, you might find you are struggling with a kicking flailing toddler who is overtired and very unhappy but the seatbelt light is on because the plane is bucking like a wild steer. Obviously the vast majority of parents do everything they can to stop a child kicking the seat in front but they can't necessarily prevent it, even if they're 'good' parents and their toddler a 'good' toddler. Travelling on a long-haul flight is not very comfortable and not very pleasant for anyone.

I travelled to family abroad frequently, alone with two young children. I was lucky, they always behaved.... Or was it luck?
They travelled from being very young. Once they had their own seat I expected that they would sit in it, belt on. Before the flight they helped pack their own bag with a book and iPad with headphones, stories and rhymes to listen to, a comfort toy.
On the plane routine and expectation meant that they didn't ever think flying was anything else but sitting still, listening to stories and having some food. They didn't expect anything else, they didn't know that they could get out of their seat, they behaved. Tbh it seemed easy. I was once even thanked and congratulated by a middle aged lady who openly admitted that her heart sank as she sat down in front of us but hadn't been disturbed by my two at all.

deliverdaniel you've gone from saying you "relatively regularly" take your small children on longhaul flights, to now saying you are only doing it because your parents are dying.

I understand - because I had to look after my own seriously ill and then dying mother for years, all the while as a single mother of a small child, and bring in a wage at the same time, and I certainly would not have had the money for regular longhaul flights - how difficult this time can be. But you still, even in these circumstances, don't get to behave like other people's lives, comfort and arrangements don't matter.

The idea that families with young children shouldn't travel to see friends or family because a few hours of someone else's life might not be mildly inconvenienced is extraordinary.

Your "mildly inconvenienced" might be someone else's "made ill because they were not able to sleep" or "had to get straight off a plane and do a job interview" or (since we are all so busy guilt-tripping on this thread) "get straight off a plane and got to a funeral". You don't get to decide what of other people's time is important or not. It's your responsibility not to interfere with other people's lives without good cause.

I pad or other tablet with headphones is the key here I think.

All ideas about not allowing screens go out of the window for long flights.

Not for babies obviously.

archeryannie i think you are reading between the lines of what I said. And I'd rather not go into specifics here, but those two things aren't contradictory! Anyway this is pointless splitting of hairs.

I'm genuinely sorry you had to go through that. It sounds awful. But I never behave as though other peoples' comfort etc doesn't matter on a plane or anywhere else. As I said, I do my level best to keep my DC's entertained/ distracted and behaving and not annoying anyone when we fly. But over the years that I have flown long haul with them, I have realised that this isn't a perfect science, and with the best will in the world, they will get fractious/ travel sick/ overtired etc sometimes . It seems from your post that you believe that the answer to that is that parents should never ever take young DC on a plane, regardless of circumstances. While I will look out for the comfort of other passengers, I think that's a pretty unreasonable and extreme position to take. I would like to think that parents would try their best to keep their DC behaving well, and other passengers would recognise that effort, and the stress involved for the parents and be as generous spirited as they can be about it.

Flew alone with DS, 2.5, on a long haul flight, just me and him. One connection. He didn't sleep for 22 hours. I repeat, 22 hours. He kept opening the tray table, undoing his seat belt, opening the window shutter thing, etc etc ad infinitum. He did not stop, at all. I bribed. I bollocked. I threatened. I was at the end of my tether. What was I supposed to do? Genuine question. Woman in front kept motherfucking tutting. If she would have said something to me I would have let rip

22 on a flight with constant disturbance? She was a saint to just tut. You should have been profusely apologising to her, not getting ready to let rip if she dared complained.

I have three kids. Youngest two have autism and youngest of the two is four. We're not attempting a plane trip as she probably won't cope and it's not fair on passengers so we drive abroad (and suffer her for 14 hours in the car).

I think having the back of your seat kicked repeatedly is intolerable. I would do more than judge. I would have started by telling the child to stop kicking my seat. If that achieved nothing I would wake both parents every time my seat was kicked and ask them to deal with their child.

If all else fails, strap the little dear outside on the wing tip for the remainder of the journey

It seems from your post that you believe that the answer to that is that parents should never ever take young DC on a plane, regardless of circumstances.

I don't think that, daniel (though in general I do think people do fly too much when it isn't necessary at all). I took my own DS, when a toddler, longhaul, and while it wasn't easy for me (he was just under two so on my lap) he slept the whole time, so the only person he was inconveniencing was me. If he had kicked off (and I know it was mere luck that he didn't) then I'd have had to do my best to keep him my business, not other people's and also to consider whether I'd want to take him again on a plane while so small.

Your very first post was about how you regularly take longhaul flights with a toddler who really doesn't travel well, how you hate it too, and how you know it upsets other passengers but that you didn't like being judged. I think it's fair, with that information given, to question whether you should have been holding off a bit until your child was a better traveller.

If you think the circumstances that you've disclosed since - ill parents - means you must travel more often, and bring the children with you, then that's your call, and understandable, but you cannot blame other passengers - who may have their own very good reasons for wanting/needing to travel, and who may also not be good travellers, although hopefully in a quieter way than a toddler - for not being delighted about being on the same plane as you.

Anyway, I hope that your parents and your kids find a connection with each other for as long as they can, in the difficult circumstances of living so far away, and that your youngest starts to enjoy travel a bit more than they do now.