Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

I don't think YABU.

I totally get that kids can kick off on planes and that it can be a total nightmare. I always, always give a sympathetic smile to the stressed parent walking a shrieking baby up and down the aisles on a plane, whispering 'shhh, sssh' in a desperate attempt to calm him/her down.

But it's the parents who don't even try to calm them down or get them under control. The ones who simply haven't grasped that their toddler is not as cute to everyone else as it is to them. And that's not an insult to the toddler. It's just a feature of biology that we find our own offspring the cutest.

I am in awe (jealous) of the parents sleeping through it all

Have done my fair share of long haul flights with screaming babies,and tots (expat ...), we emigrated a few times so it could not be helped.

I have always found people to be so sympathetic and helpful, my oldest had colic and once screamed non stop for 9 hours. Our whole cabin did not get to sleep, I felt guilty and desperate.

Worst 9 hours of my life, and I guess for the people around me too.

Sometimes these things happen though, if I had known I had not flown.

Saying that, I think babies and toddlers are part of life, and that includes travel and planes.

It is a balance, kids are part of life and that includes planes but as a parent I don't expect to sleep until my kids do on long haul. One kid may not sleep until 8 or 9 hours in and I don't think it's okay to sleep until he does. (Doesn't mean I don't dream about it! )

archeryannie not possible for us unfortunately. We live abroad and grandparents can't travel so only way for them to have any relationship w DC is for us to travel.

dangerkeepaway doesn't matter if they were ill, they were their kids and they were disturbing other people.

deliverdaniel I have lots of family abroad, and long-haul isn't the only way of keeping contact - there's also skype, etc. You choose to fly with a toddler instead of waiting the very short time until your children are no longer toddlers, and while you are perfectly free to choose to do that, if it's clear when you do so that you, your kid, and none of the other passengers are enjoying those flights at all, then I am also free to be judgy about it.

I wouldn't inflict my toddler on other people during a flight. Therefore we holiday in the UK, if I did it is unfair to abandon the child with grandma, lazy parenting. People think their own children are cute others do not!

I'll probably be shot down in flames for saying this but I think it's high time that ALL airlines offered the option of child free flights (no kids under 12 say). And not charge extra for the privilege. Yeah too much to hope for I know. And dare I say it,some parents need to understand that not everyone finds their kids (badly behaved or otherwise) as cute and entertaining as they do.

Janey50 don't see why you should be shot down.
Or child free sections.
Then people who get huffy at kids can relax and get huffy about other things and parents could relax and not worry about people tutting at them.

archeryannie you honestly have no idea about our circumstances/ what waiting 'a very short time until our children are no longer toddlers' would mean in terms of grandparents seeing their grandchildren. Your post, while perhaps technically accurate is staggeringly insensitive.

I personally think people shouldn't be taking children on planes until they're old enough to behave themselves. Parents have a responsibility to other travellers and need to work had to make sure children are considerate rather than loud and disruptive. Plenty of children travel as perfectly reasonable passengers, sitting still, watching films, playing cards or sleeping. "My child can't be quiet" " I don't let them - they just do" is complete abdication of responsibility towards others and poor parenting.
I'd tell the child off myself and wake the parents to care for the child. Actually I'd avoid planes likely to be full of children and fly business class long haul because there are some weak parents and entitled children out there.

crumbs surely you must see that there are some circumstances in which parents need to travel with children?

And you know nothing about my circs, deliverydaniel, or the decisions I've made. Every choice we make (including when it's to move far away from family, or to have kids) comes with a set of compromises, and new choices to make, and just as you are free to make whatever choices you like, I am free to judge you if those choices impact on other people.

Another thing that's "technically accurate": not everybody has the funds to make regular long-haul flights, and yet maintain those family connections anyway. I think you are "staggeringly insensitive" about how most other people manage their family lives when they have close relatives abroad.

archeryannie what a bizarre post. I'm not sure what I could possibly have said that could be considered staggeringly insensitive about how others manage their family lives. I've not suggested anyone 'should' be doing anything w regards to long haul flying or maintaining family connections or anything else.

But really if you are that keen to pick a fight with someone over taking their kids to visit seriously ill parents/ grandparents because they might irritate you a bit on a plane then I'm not sure this conversation is worth pursuing.

I have travelled internationally extensively for work for 20 years.

I have been vomited on twice...both were single guys, business suits drank too much on plane

I have witnessed two fights/verbal altercations..... again, "suited and booted" business people

I have witnessed verbal sexual harassment of flight attendants more times than I can remember

I have seen people kick off over lack off food options, a non-functioning video screen.

I have seen a flight attendant loudly verbally threatened because of late arrival of plane (which was due to adverse weather)

I have never had a problem with a child/toddler

Just sayin'

I always read these and thin of a) my poor mother and b) the other poor passengers.

When I was 1 they took me and my 10 year old sister to Australia.

Mum didn't realise a one year old was capabale of not just crying but screaming for 24 hours solid.

Just as she thought it couldn't get any worse as we came into land my sister suffered a perforated eardrum (she maintains it was my screaming not the pressure that caused it) and matched if not beat my level of screaming!!!

I'll probably be shot down in flames for saying this but I think it's high time that ALL airlines offered the option of child free flights (no kids under 12 say). And not charge extra for the privilege. Yeah too much to hope for I know. And dare I say it,some parents need to understand that not everyone finds their kids (badly behaved or otherwise) as cute and entertaining as they do

We can only dream...... I have had toddlers who I knew would have pissed off annoyed other passengers on long haul flights. That's the reason I didn't take them abroad on holiday until they were old enough to understand social etiquette.

I friggin hate having to put up with the high pitched screams of babies and toddlers on flights. And I see no reason whatsoever for parents allowing their offspring to kick the seat in front of them. Or stand on the seat and slap the head of the person sitting in front.

That brings me to the adult passengers, who, as soon as the plane has ascended, simply have to push their seat all the way back

Yes some circumstances- but most are for holidays which parents want. Most young children would be far happier in Devon or at Centre Parcs - Greece at a push but most toddlers don't want to see Singapore or Go to Mauritius.

A child-free option on busy routes would be an interesting idea. What age to define as a child?

I once made myself the Hero of the Business Class Cabin by showing a lad of about eight (whose mother was ignoring him) how to do logic puzzles. At the end of the flight he had got through an entire book and part of another, which I gave him. The mother didn't even bloody thank me.

crumbs fair enough. I guess When I posted that I was feeling a bit bruised by pp who suggested we were U for taking our kids on flights to visit elderly/ dying relatives.

I am reminded of an utterly hellish flight with DD when she was 15 months old back from Cyprus. I was six months pregnant.

DH and I had been allocated the window and middle seat with DD on my lap. DD screamed from the moment the plane took off so as soon as we could DH got up and walked up and down with her which stopped her crying. Whenever we sat her back down she screamed. We then swapped and I walked for a bit until I got a bit tired. The woman in the aisle seat refused to let DH out to swap with me or to let me back to my seat as she said we had disturbed her enough. We offered her the window seat, she refused.

We asked for help from the cabin crew, she refused to get up for them too, saying we were horrible with a horrible repulsive brat and she wasn't letting me back in my seat. She demanded an upgrade, but the plane was full

DH clambered over her a few times, probably none too gently, but I was too pregnant to get back to my seat. I spent most of the flight crying on an uncomfortable jump seat. The cabin crew did nothing really, but they were kind to us, but said they couldn't force her to move.

It was horrible and uncomfortable and embarrassing. She let me back for the landing only because the crew threatened to call the police, but made horrible comments all the time. I could cry thinking about it now.

We really were doing our best and DD was usually a good flyer, we had flown a lot as my father was living in France at the time, but somehow lost it for this flight.

Some strange opinions on this thread... Yes children can be taught to sit still. Do you give them books to read at home? I don't mean read them a story where they are passively listening, I mean teach them to entertain themselves with books or other quiet staric toy?
Do you train them to sit still in a café or restaurant?
Do you let them leave the table as soon as they are finished eating or do you teach them to wait until everybody is finished?

Also, when on the plane, I agree that you can't expect the child to keep himself entertained quietly for hours, but then it means an active participation from the parent. Don't expect to rest or be able to wath a movie, you will have to actively talk to him, get up and walk down the aisle with him, read him a story, etc.

Kicking seats is not acceptable, I would physically prevent my DC from doing so.

lambzig poor you. What a horrid woman. So sorry you had to go through that.

Lambzig My message wasn't aimed at you! Obviously a baby or toddler under 2 who is crying (not tantruming) can't be controlled. This lady was awful

Isn't that the title of a film? If it hasn't been made, it should be!