Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

Also I hate it when people say this. What if you are moving countries? What if you have to fly long haul to attend a funeral? Both these scenarios have happened to me recently.

They may have applied to you, tinypop, but realistically these are an absolutely minute proportion of the people flying. And there are times when you cannot fly at all - eg if you are pregnant - however many funerals you have to attend, or however much you wish to move. I'm fine with todlers flying, generally, but I don't agree that your needs necessarily always trump those of other people who are also trying to travel. And if someone does have a toddler who they know will scream for 5 hours on a flight if not incessantly entertained, then perhaps that's the point at which those parents forgo international travel for a year or two and have local holidays instead.

It does depend a lot on the personality of the child
Agree, but also on the demeanour of the parent.

Who decides whose needs trump whose? It's a few bloody hours of your life and parents/children have as much right to travel as anyone else.

dangerkeepaway we flew to New York with 4 (almost 5) year old DS1, no problems at all. He had snacks, games, colouring in and a Nintendo DS. We had a going on a plane book out for weeks before, he was well prepared and thankfully well behaved

shoofly that's good, the more happy and relaxed children and parents on a plane, the better. Unfortunately, my 4yo would be 'that' child, he's nonverbal but very loud, has the odd meltdown and doesn't understand the concept of not annoying other people. I dread public transport with him as it is but after reading some of these, I hope I never need it again.

I took my DD on a few long haul flights by myself (pre i pad days) when she was a toddler, and took a shoe bag full of different toys, but it was very full on parenting and I had to be very creative to keep it going.

I used to take a few wrapped up little gifts and give her one intermittently to keep her interest, and as an incentive to behave well. Cheap little finger puppets were a particularly good one and provided hours of fun!

I generally loved travelling with her and being on holiday. Really good quality time together, no cooking and other chores, and she always seemed to have taken a developmental leap by the end of the holiday.

I think people who say you shouldn't fly with children are totally unreasonable. Just be prepared to entertain them for a longer time than normal!

Toddlers will be toddlers. It would be U to expect them to behave like adults. We were all toddlers once!

BUT the parents sleeping whilst their kid caused carnage? That is poor. YANBU to think they should have helped to look after their own child.

dangerkeepaway why should one group of passengers have the right to entirely disrupt travel for the other passengers? It's the "it's MY RIGHT for my little angel to do whatever they like (while I sleep)" people who are the problem here. I don't give a shit if it's their right or not, if they aren't respecting other people.

YANBU

...and I should add I don't have anything against either toddlers or parents of toddlers, even when they are kicking off - just those parents who show absolutely no consideration towards others, and think the world has to revolve around their wishes.

Yes, @dangerkeepaway, parents and children have as much right as anyone else to travel - but with rights come responsibilities, and if you are travelling with children, it is your responsibility to do your best to stop them making other people's journey a misery.

Of course, the other passenger have responsibilities too - we all have to modify our behaviour sometimes, to co-exist with other people. As a child free traveller, I think it is my responsibility to be tolerant toward parents who are struggling to get their child to behave and sit quietly - I have had toddlers and I know how hard it can be, so I do my best to be tolerant. But my tolerance will be strained if the parents are doing bugger-all to stop their child kicking my chair/screaming/being a nuisance.

Too many people want to talk about their rights without acknowledging that, with rights come responsibilities.

It's the kicking the seats bit I can't stand. That isn't just toddlers though, I had a bit of a stand off with some late teens/early 20s young women in a West End theatre about that. I turned and gave them the look a couple of times and in the end told them they were ruining the play for me (and the tickets were bloody expensive) and if they kicked my seat once more I was going to ask the manager to sort it out. Amazingly they seemed able to control themselves after that.

archery I would have thought most parents would be utterly mortified, I know I would be. Also, no one knows anything about this particular couple's situation, why they were travelling or why they were sleeping.

"Who decides whose needs trump whose? It's a few bloody hours of your life and parents/children have as much right to travel as anyone else."

And all passengers should be considerate towards each other. This is no justification for lazy parenting.

We flew to Madeira once when my DN was about 2. She did not want to be strapped in, but it was turbulent, so had no choice. She screamed and screamed and kicked and kicked and belted the woman in front of us for ages, and no matter what I did, we couldn't stop her until the seatbelt sign went off.

When we landed, my DB carried her off the plane. I apologised to the woman in front, who looked at me with murder in her eyes, and hissed, "YOU SHOULD CONTROL HER BETTER." fucking hell, she wasn't even mine!!

however, we took my DD to Fuerteventura when she was about 7 months, and I had to laugh, because DP and I had the window and middle seats at the very front, and the man who had the aisle seat next to me was explaining to his wife (with his back to us) that he couldn't swap with her, it wasn't his fault that she was with the 2 kids and he was at the other end of the plane, they had to sit in the allocated seats... he sat down with a big grin on his face, only to see that he was right next to someone else's kid!!

he turned out to be brilliant though, she grizzled a bit as we descended, and he kept her entertained for the full 30 mins by playing with her. most people are pretty helpful and understanding, in my experience, I am glad to say.

Children making noise probably can't be helped completely, although adults should be trying to do something about it.

Child kicking the seat is completely not on. The very least that can be done is for parents to be actively trying to prevent this all the time. Atempts should be made for the child to be seated in such a way that kicking is less likely, ie.. on the seat rather than granny's lap.

I would have woken the Dad every time i was kicked. Why was he opting out several rows back? Dad probably the best physically able to control child's kicks, granny the least likely to be abme to.

Or called cabin crew.

I had this happen years ago. Night flight and i had to work the next day. Baby/ small toddler kicking my seat constantly. On Mum's lap, Dad beside them. I turned round and asked really politely for them to try to stop the kicking as i needed to sleep. Man next to me says "Oh dont worry it's fine" to the parents, as though over riding my request. I wish Id had the presence of mind to say "Oh this man doesnt mind being kicked so if your husband holds the baby he/she can kick him instead". Instead I moved seats (to less good seat) like a coward.

dangerkeepaway but these parents weren't mortified. If they aren't prepared to take responsibility for their toddler while travelling, then they should not travel with a toddler.

I have taken a toddler on a plane long-haul, and it went fine (he slept both ways) but I have had plenty of practice in taking him places where I would like to be but bore him, so I had to do full-on parenting so he would not disturb anyone else. And if I was not prepared to do the full-on parenting, or if I knew he would kick off regardless and make other people's lives a misery, then whenever possible I just did not do the thing, and found another way to get whatever it was done.

YANBU but spare a thought for those of us with really hard to contain toddlers. We have to fly longhaul relatively regularly. DS1 was easy to contain with ipad/ snacks etc. DS2 is a nightmare to contain. We do our utmost, we really do- tellings off/ bribes/ stick/ carrot/ distractions/ regular walks etc. but yet still he is a nightmare and the instant we let up for even a second he's off. It's exhausting and demoralising and the judgement makes it a million times worse.

And dangerkeepaway it doesn't matter why they were travelling or why they were sleeping - their toddler was their responsibility, not anyone else's. If the "solution" they provided (grandma) was not working, then they should have sorted out another solution, not abdicate all responsibility.

deliverdaniel all parents have to make compromises when they have children. Have you ever thought about arranging your life for the next year so you didn't have to fly longhaul with a toddler?

granny I agree that kicking seats is just awful at all times.

I find men do it alot giving the excuse "oh Im tall". No, you're sitting at an angle that makes your legs stretch out further. And if they must contact with the seat keep them still.

Well it does matter, they could have been ill for all anyone knows. Easier to assume they're just lazy bastards though, just like it's easier to assume that 'badly behaved' children are just little shits with useless parents.

It doesn't matter if they are ill, dangerkeepaway - their children are still not anyone else's responsibility but their own. If they arrange help (grandma, or cabin crew, or whatever) that's great, but the child is still their responsibility, not any other passenger's.

Only marginally.