Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

*I don't like toddlers. I never have. I didn't enjoy that stage with my own. It was something to be tolerated.

Wow, you sound like a lovely person hmm Hardly reasonable to dislike an entire age group?!*

And? Oh no expat doesn't like toddlers so must be a mean person
I agree with her, though i don't particulaly like teenagers at the minute i must be the devil

EllieMentry you TRIED. Iwouldn't have been annoyed. You stopped him kicking the backs of the seats and apologised.

" Put yourself in a world with differently behaved children for 10 seconds despite you disciplining. "

'Differently behaved.'
Is that code for badly behaved brats?

Actually expatinscotland i choose overnight flights where possible, spend the day focused on wearing out my child, come armed with I pad, colouring pads, favourite toys, snacks etc and wouldn't even think about taking a nap. The whole flight is spent making sure that other passengers are disprupted as least possible but unfortunately it's completely unrealistic to expect them to behave like little angels the whole flight and sit there seeing and tutting if the parent isn't shouting at them. I just see it from the child's point of view and really think it's unreasonable for anyone to expect perfect behaviour from a toddler. Their world's revolve around playing and being noisy and they have not been on earth long enough to understand the whole consideration for others idea. So I'm just saying it's a bit ridiculous for us to expect them to step on a plane and completely change from toddlers to sitting like mature adults. I have honestly found that the best way to ensure the least disruption is to entertain and distract and try to get them to sleep. My husband is a bit less inclined to agree with me and this is why I am the one who sits with the toddler for the whole flight as him telling an upset toddler off does nothing but extend the tantrum tenfold and intensify the whole thing! All im saying is a little understanding of toddlers would not hurt, I'm n it going to start shouting at at a toddler doing normal toddler things just to appease some tutting judgy people who have never been a child obviously. I can honestly say that although my toddler was not perfect and sat glued to the chair for 18 hours disruption was a minimum, many hours were spent sleeping, when child was awake they were fully entertained and for the record I would stop the chair kicking straight away but not with shouting and bawling which seems to be what alot of people are expecting. To answer the OP the parents behavior on this particular flight was unacceptable but the thread seems to have turned into judging parents for even taking toddlers in the first place. Just a bit of consideration and tolerance goes a long way. There are loads of adult behaviour I don't particularly care for when boarding a flight too but again. It's all part of life.

I'm a very lovely person, who doesn't like toddlers.
Very few people like toddlers who are not their own offspring. Actually, including their own. Toddlers truly are a niche interest for people with steely nerves, who don't mind being covered in bodily fluids of someone else, don't mind looking after an irrational tyrant and don't mind people with loads of opinion, but virtually no reasoning. They are cute when asleep clutching a car or teddy.

Look, Nurse, you really cannot expect people who have no experience of children to understand them, much less indulge them. Before I had kids, I was clueless. We have a long-haul again, we do every year if my parents are to see their grandchildren, and I'm already preparing since DS has ASD. That's my job!

Oh, kali, the tween is tricky enough! The teen is trying desperately to come out in her!

'They are cute when asleep clutching a car or teddy.'

And in photos, where they're nice and still.

What I can't stand is when little ones cry during take off, when the parents should be getting them to suck on a bottle, boob, or even a dummy. Surely people know that ears pop and the best way to stop it is to suck something even if it's a dummy just for the flight

@Absintheshots please see latest post. Sorry if you have misunderstood me saying that a 2 year on on a longhaul flight will not behave perfectly as I can't be arsed as that is not what I have tried to say. I'm just being realistic. No matter how hard you try their will most likely on a long haul flight be something the child does that is disruptive. Like have already said, you can do everything you can as a parent to entertain, I have done miles in walking up and down Isles believe me and the wearing out, getting night flights everything I can think of. I am totally respectful of other passengers and do everything possible for us not to be a pain in the arse to others. My point is that sometimes that whatever you do there will be times the child might be annoying or have a meltdown. When you are doing your best and you have people tutting and judging it doesn't help. Its stressful enough. And neither do the suggestions that toddlers shouldn't be taken on planes.

@expatinscotland im not expecting anyone to indulge them. I know it's my job to entertain them and do all I can to keep them occupied and that is what I do. But to expect toddlers to not be on flights and otherwise to be silent throughout is totally ridiculous. As long as the parent is doing their best there is nothing more you can ask for. The idea that toddlers will be told off and that will sort it out is also ridiculous. I don't walk the shoes of other people but doesn't mean I can't tolerate them. That's a shame if you can't tolerate anyone that you haven't had exactly the same experience as. You sound delightful.

YANBU. Travelling with kids is a full time job, I would have said something...
I've travelled regularly with my now 4yo DS since he was 1 (long haul, 15hr journeys with a direct long haul fight of 13hrs) and I rarely sleep. When kids are little you can't control crying, but the kicking seats (or standing on the seats and trying to disturb other passengers) is unacceptable in my opinion.
When we travel we have lots of activities, I feel it's my job to keep him entertained/busy during the flight; it's exhausting but he's my responsibility. And the more we fly, the more DS understands what he can/can't do, it gets easier.
My kid isn't perfect by the way, small kids get bored in long flights and they can have their moments, but I think passengers will be more understanding if they see the parents are doing their best to keep the kid quiet.

What really annoys me is the funny looks and judgement I get from people like you who probably have all had kids/grandkids in your own time and understand full well what children are like but yet still judge

because I wasn't stupid enough to take a small child on a long flights.

Yes I know I'll get the "we had to show off the kids to elderly relatives who can't travel". Ok that may apply in a few cases and yes there may be country moves and family events.

But lets face it, most people are travelling on holiday We had lots of great holidays in the UK and close parts of Europe - where flights were a bit over an hour at most. You don't need to do 10+ hour flights for a holiday until your kids are older and can manage on a long flight. We went to Australia when ds was nearly 7. I would not have gone earlier than that.

A parent who goes to sleep when travelling with a toddler hands over the parenting to the rest of the plane. I have been tempted to teach such a child some choice words while daddy and mummy are sleeping and expecting others to deal with their child.

'That's a shame if you can't tolerate anyone that you haven't had exactly the same experience as. You sound delightful.'

Why, thank you, I'm delightful, indeed. I never said I expected toddlers to be told off or shouted at . There's a lot of projecting going on here.

And no matter what the parent does, I can always ask the crew if I can be moved [smiled]. Before I had kids, I wasn't terribly fond of toddlers. And then I had 3 and . . . I'm still not . My heart will always sink when I see one in the row behind me.

Well done to you for trying to keep your wee one entertained, but it's always going to annoy the fuck out of many, many people when toddlers kick off. And as for 'parents' who just let them, well, that's just wank.

@remoaniac to be honest if there wasn't an important reason to travel that far with toddlers I can't see why people would choose to as for the parents it's alot more stressful than for other passengers. It's exhausting and intense and you are the least popular person on the plane and the looks begin at check in. Saying that why shouldn't a family with young kids go where the hell they like just because of other people's tolerance levels? Adults without toddlers are not the most important section of society im afraid although reading this thread you would think they are. The sensible approach is for parents to take them if they wish or need to and do all they can to keep them occupied and least disruptive as possible. And it's nobody's business why they are taking them, nobody questions you. Perhaps you snore loudly on planes and dont even know? There are body odour issues with many adults on planes amongst other things Nobody questions why they are going. Again. A little tolerance.

I agree it is stressful for the parents, Nursejackie1. Or at least it should be. Mum and dad on OP's flight were asleep and didn't give a shit.

I'm cabin crew too. Toddlers on a plane can be hard work. Others are angelic! Some parents try really hard to try and distract crying babies and I really feel for them. Other parents don't try at all! This particular mum sounds like she falls into that category. I think you should have kept waking the mum up (or ask the crew to) and even asked her to swop seats with you, so she was in the kicked seat! When we have toddlers onboard that fall asleep right after take off I always jokingly ask the parents what their secret is, and most say they've been wearing them out all day (the rest say Calpol!). If you are struggling with a toddler I suggest taking them off to the galley (if not meal service time) for a bit of time out for other passengers. I know it's not easy for parents sometimes.

Father was asleep in a separate row! I'd have asked cabin crew to make him swap with me so he had his toddler kicking him instead!

@paxillin I don't know how they relaxed enough to be honest. They were completely in the wrong.

Aeroplanes are a public mode of transport. The sooner people realise that they are not guaranteed a child free flight and that when they see kids getting on its terrible bad luck it's not. Planes are for everybody. Young, old, etc etc. Why people gear themselves up for a perfect serene flight I don't know. They are a PUBLIC service. The issue here is that the parents behaved in an antisocial way by not even attempting to minimise disruption from their children. Not the fact that young children were on the flight. Adults behave annoyingly on planes all the time. Leaning chairs back too far, loud snoring, talking loudly, getting drunk, being obnoxious towards flight attendants, stinking, fighting, the list goes on. Many flights have been grounded due to adults on flighta so next time u are boardung are you going to start tutting if you see adults boarding? No. So I don't understand the mindset of people turning their noses up at young children getting on flights when I don't see a whole adult section of society being told they shouldn't be going long haul. They are even worse in my opinion. They have no excuse. So all the judgy tutting pillocks before you've even boarded the plane just because they see a family with children it's pretty narrow minded of you, maybe take a look at what your own age group gets upto.

'Toddlers will be toddlers'

• yes they will.

Thats fine.

Some will settle well, some will fuss and some will be really figety and a pain in the backside.

But parents should work with it and if their kid is fussy actually TRY to do something.

The issue is (and always will be) idiots who want to travel with kids, arent prepared and think that because their kid is a kid they can do whatever the fuck they like and the world should just lump it.

It's not about kids, its about parents who cant be arsed to parent.

I do think "oh no" if a toddler sits behind me. My heart also sinks if I see a stag or hen party board, having had a few less than wonderful flight companions from those groups. I do not as a rule worry about teens, ten year olds, the elderly... because while these groups do contain some pillocks they don't generally make others life a misery on a flight. Toddlers do unless the parents work hard to prevent it.

Surely this just goes back to OP's OP - most travellers are okay with toddlers and babies if the DPs are doing their best to look after them and restraining them from kicking seats, running down the aisles etc. Especially if they have flown before and know how best to keep them entertained and stop the poor lambs having pressurisation problems.

In the OPs case I certainly would have asked cabin crew for help - two parents, with one spread across two seats, oblivious to the toddler and leaving it to the poor gran - at least they could have taken it in turns to mind their child.

Having said that, badly behaved toddlers rank rather behind drunk and aggressive adults where your plane can get grounded while they're arrested - or (prepares for flaming) extraordinarily large people who crush you and don't allow any room to get to the loo - or people who snore/move their seats back while you're eating/the list goes on

Threads title sounds like afilm.

#justsaying

I regularly fly with my kids. YANBU.

• wear toddlers out physically before boarding the plane. This is the number one best tip IME. Do everything you can to have them dead on their feet by the time you strap them in

• no sugar before boarding plane and not much during flight. Crisps, olives etc are better bribe food. Give them a proper meal before getting on the plane, with no snacks after that until you are airborne. You want them hungry but not grumpy with it in time for the meal service

• no iPad before boarding plane. Get them suitable headphones that don't fall out of/ off their ears every 5 seconds.

• total ban on seat kicking, I make mine tuck their legs up to stop this. Ditto endlessly pulling down table or window blind.

• screaming: if possible, removal to galley/toilet area. Noise from talking etc is normal, passengers have to accept it to an extent.

• intensive parenting! Not possible to go to sleep unless they are engrossed in iPad or asleep themselves. Take books and activities to do with them to break up the iPad. I think it is fair to everyone to allow unlimited iPad on flights, but younger children will get fractious if it's all they've got for hours.

If I'm on a flight by myself I often also offer to entertain a child for a bit - so much easier when it's not your own and it all spreads the love

If the child is awake the parent must stay awake and supervise, no matter how tired (s)he is. It's called parenthood.

most travellers are okay with toddlers and babies if the DPs are doing their best to look after them and restraining them from kicking seats, running down the aisles etc
Yes. Yes. Yes x 10000

Make a reasonable attempt to parent and you get all the sympathy. Kids can be fussy.

Make no effort people will think youre a selfabsorbed moron.

Prezel1979
More people should be like you.
And like you, im also quite happy to pass time pulling silly faces at little ones to keep them entertained. Never offered to keep an eye but happy to spend a little time chatting to toddlers to help keep parents sane.