Toddlers on a plane

[gingertigercat]

I want to see how others would react in my situation or if my lack of sleep led to me being unreasonable.

On a rather long and early flight, hence the lack of sleep, I had a toddler behind me. The father was asleep in a separate row. The mother was asleep sprawled over 2 seats and the grandmother was looking after the toddler who was mainly on her lap. The whole flight he kicked our chairs, smacked the seats, grabbed at us, stuck his head through the gaps, and clambered between his grans lap and over his mum. He was loud throughout the flight. The gran did tell him a few times to stop smacking the seats but it did nothing.

I think had the mum just been asleep in her own seat there would have been much less disruption. I would have said something but I felt bad seeing as the gran wasn't the parent and I'm not very confrontational.

I understand toddlers can be hard work and the parents were probably exhausted but surely it shouldn't have been at other passengers expense? What would other people do in this situation?

When dsd was a toddler I was travelling to and from India with her nearly every two months (for work related reasons). I can hand on heart say she never kicked seats, never screamed. She did cry a couple of times at the beginning but my dsd's first instinct was to seek comfort in my lap and have cuddles when she was upset & not tantrumn. Tantrumns from my experience tend to occur when parents don't provide enough and appropriate proactive comfort when kids are stressed - they shouldn't be left to cry it out and in new and unfamiliar situations it def helps to give them a cuddle. You have to be constantly on the ball. Constantly proactive to ensure your child is happy. In short parents should never fall asleep when taking kids that age on a plane - it's just wrong. That grandmother should have woken the mum up - bet she would have if it required a nappy change or feeding, so why not for poor behaviour. Makes me furious.

Take earplugs or wear headphones. Twice I've travelled without kids, and blocking out the noise was a godsend. Plus knowing it's not me having to keep the children constantly amused.

I have told kids off for fighting on a train. Their parents did nothing. I was very pleased that it worked.

Tantrumns from my experience tend to occur when parents don't provide enough and appropriate proactive comfort when kids are stressed -

Really I've heard it all now. No toddlers can throw tantrums when they don't get what they want, when they are tired/hungry/bored. I could go on. I think you need to go out into the world a bit more it seems as if you've been living in a cave

I would guess the vast majority of people flying with toddlers are going on holiday and not relocating or going for some emergency.

I have a 2.5 year old and although on the whole she's good we have avoided planes just because it's clearly going to be stressful. Crying and tantrums are unavoidable but no kids should be allowed to kick or grab chairs. If you really think they can't manage then you shouldn't be taking them.

I was travelling with 4 kids of my own and I would always be conscious of trying to minimise disturbance for others
And that lack of consideration is what pisses me off.
I feel no end of sympathy for parents desparately trying to calm down an anxious/unhappy child.

I judge the life out of parents who think its fine to let their kids run around, kick seats, scream, shout etc.

As ever on these kinds of threads, some people focus on how unfair it is on the child. Its not about judging a child gor being a child, its expecting a parent to parent their child.

The kicking the back of chairs is horrendous, and it's not reasonable to allow a child to do it. I would have woken the parents up ... or had the cabin crew do it ... every time the kicking started up again alone.

*should say 'Its the lack of consideration...'

PP i wish all passengers were as considerate as you.

Firstly, you have no idea whether they can manage when you first take them. They may manage brilliantly the first time, and the next they may have a cold and be out of sorts.

Secondly, when I lived abroad, twice I was relocating (there and back) and the rest of the time I was returning to my home country (and back) to see my family and friends. Do you think we should just have stayed abroad all that time and not seen my children's grandparents, one of whom in fact died before we returned to live in the UK? After all, those weren't emergencies, but we lived a long way from lots of people we really cared about.

Of course it's annoying to have a wriggly toddler behind you and I always paid for a seat for my under 2s so there was more space. And an annoying toddler is no worse than the middle aged man who coughed and hawked throughout my last flight or the young woman who was constantly adjusting her seat.

'I bribed. I bollocked. I threatened. I was at the end of my tether. What was I supposed to do? Genuine question.

Woman in front kept motherfucking tutting. If she would have said something to me I would have let rip.'

At least have swapped seats with your child for a few hours so she could have some peace. I've flown long haul on my own with 1-3 children for the past 13 years and DS has ASD. It's a ballache. I made sure they always had their own seat, I make sure we're in the bulkhead so DS can't kick someone's seat in front of him. I make sure at least one seat is an aisle seat. And if DS kicks off too much I had to walk him up and down, take him out of the aisle so the other passenger gets a break. Ask to be moved. All sorts.

I don't like toddlers. I never have. I didn't enjoy that stage with my own. It was something to be tolerated. So I'm not in the mood to tolerate other's, especially when they CBAd to parent them.

What really annoys me is the funny looks and judgement I get from people like you

You are lucky if you only get a funny look if you can't control your child and disturb everybody else.
What I find it even worst is having to put up with horrible little brats like that, when I am travelling with my own kids! I work really hard to make sure they behave in a plane, it does take work, and the last thing I need is some little shit precious snowflake waking them up or upsetting them by screaming or kicking their seat. We do try to make them laugh and make fun of the naughty child behind, so they don't upset themselves, but it's not pleasant.

I do have friends who always come up with that sentence "kids will be kids, you can't stop them from kicking seat". You bloody well can! If it really is too impossible, don't fly and stop moaning that it's not a holiday with children.

We traveled behind a family recently - short flight, thank god. The 3 young kids were seated together, and the mother was on the other side, peacefully reading her book and having a snack whilst the kids were creating mayhem. I had to distract my own because an irate passenger was teaching them rude words (it would have been funny if I hadn't been with my little one), but I don't think that kind of family even cares.

I don't mind children playing but seat kicking is the unacceptable bit.

Being stuck on a plane near somebody else's screaming, seat-kicking kids is my idea of absolute hell..... It makes me shudder just thinking about it. 11 hour flight this summer....the thought of being near a screamer fills me with rage dread already!!

"Thing is Lori you would have been seen to actively try and do something about it and therefore others are more likely to be sympathetic to your situation."

This was always at the back of my mind when I travelled with dc- and I did have to do it as all my family live abroad. The way I reckoned was if I put in all the work I possibly could keeping dc entertained- talking to them, reading to them, keeping them fed and watered, pretending to be terribly enthusiastic- and making sure I had control of where their feet went, then fellow passengers might be a little more forgiving about the occasional tantrum.

I find that's how I react: I smile understandingly at an alert and hard-working parent who has to deal with the meltdown at the end of a long flight, but have very little tolerance of parents who sit at the other end of the bus to their offspring and try to control them by shouting at them.

It's bad enough trying to "control" a toddler at the best of times but to expect one to sit quietly for hours on end in a confined space without disturbing other pass angers is quite frankly never going to happen. To those who are saying the toddlers in their care on flights behaved well, that's really great and lucky for you but sitting still and quiet is just not what they are programmed to do! I have taken my child on longhaul flights many times due to half his family living abroad and sometimes we were lucky and sometimes it was a bit of a battle but we tried! Children and toddlers have as much right as adults to be flying for whatever reason and in our case no way are we going to stop them growing up with their culture and family which is half their blood because of a few uptight passengers who think they are more important than anyone else. I understand the annoyance about the parents not parenting, but the best you and the parent can hope for on a flight is for the child to be well occupied and sleep for most of it. Unfortunately through experience I know that telling toddlers off for what is actually just natural behaviour is just going to make a difficult situation worse. It's stressful enough when getting on flights with toddlers knowing that half the plane is tutting and judging but sorry it's life.

YANBU
The parents should have both taken a turn.
I'm cabin crew and dread my own trips as a passenger incase I get a selfish family like you describe next to me.

I have flown with toddlers and no way would I allow them to repeatedly kick the seat in front or misbehave.

I don't really understand why you just sat there and took it really.

'Unfortunately through experience I know that telling toddlers off for what is actually just natural behaviour is just going to make a difficult situation worse. It's stressful enough when getting on flights with toddlers knowing that half the plane is tutting and judging but sorry it's life.'

No, that's rudeness and lack of consideration. YOU get up and walk about with them then. You swap seats with them. But yeah, the plane is tutting and judging because of your 'toddlers will be toddlers' attitude.

We've flown often with the DCs (one with ASD) since they were young and both are generally very well behaved on planes. Coming home from holiday last summer (9 hour flight) the family in front of us had a DS the same age as DS2 (6) who screamed, threw toys, tantrummed, kicked and shouted his entire way through the flight. My DCs sat wide-eyed with horror at the stuff he was allowed to get away with as his Dad turned up his headphones and his Mum got pissed-up on free drinks.

I have every sympathy with anyone trying to soothe discontented children and have stepped in to offer support on journeys if I thought it appropriate. But to simply get twatted in order to avoid parenting is a bullshit way to behave and that deserves to be judged.

WTF re the parents sleeping and leaving the granny to handle their toddler on a long haul flight. Taking the piss, or what?? This would have majorly pissed me off even before anything happened!

I don't like toddlers. I never have. I didn't enjoy that stage with my own. It was something to be tolerated.

Wow, you sound like a lovely person Hardly reasonable to dislike an entire age group?!

I'm a very lovely person, who doesn't like toddlers. They're a PITA. So sue me.

@Nursejackie - the key phrase in your post was "...but we tried..."

Anyone who tuts and glares at a parent who is doing their level best, is a bit of an arsehole. On the other hand, the parents who do nothing, and let their child/run kick seats/make lots of noise and generally make the flight a misery for their fellow passengers, should be ashamed of themselves.

It's bad enough trying to "control" a toddler at the best of times but to expect one to sit quietly for hours on end in a confined space without disturbing other pass angers is quite frankly never going to happen.

it's not going to happen if you leave them there with nothing to do! It's your job to plan entertainment! We are lucky with modern technology to have so many distractions available, its so much easier to travel nowadays. How do you think the rest of us manage?

What do you do BEFORE the flight to tire them out? What do you do DURING the flight to distract them? It would be horrendous if everyone had the same attitude than you, you are giving a bad name to all of us.

If the parents are doing their best to distract the toddler and contain the situation, most people wouldn't judge.

It's when - as in this situation - the parents opt out and let the behaviour unfold without making any effort to parent their child that it's annoying.

I speak as someone who has flown with a tantrumming three-year-old who just wouldn't stop, so I'm in no way smug about my children's behaviour. I was mortified, but did hold his legs to stop him kicking the seat in front and did my best to distract and contain him. I also apologised to the people around me when he finally did calm down (as we were leaving the plane).

There was a family with a toddler on a recent long-haul flight I was on and I was massively impressed with how they coped. It was full-on, non-stop parenting for 10 hours, but you do what you have to do.

Yanbu at all.
Crying screaming yes, but kicking and the grabbing no.
The mother certainly wouldn't have remained asleep if it had been me.

LoriD i don't want a child bouncing behind me amd i wouldn't put up with it.
Screaming is expected, endless chatter and crying yes.
A child bouncing and kicking my seat ( i have back and joint problems) no not a chance.