I am scared of the kind of society we are becoming?

[brasty]

More and more as a society we seem to be losing empathy for people who are struggling. From those on benefits, to those in overcrowded houses, to disabled and ill people. If individuals think they would not find themselves in that situation, then any empathy seems to disappear.

Not everyone has the same personal resources. Some people are struggling just to get through every day and so eating healthily is not a priority. It is not accident that those with severe mental health problems tend to have worse physical health and higher levels of harmful behavior such as smoking.

Being chronically disabled is shit and makes life much much harder than those who have never experienced it realise. And yes someone may be "lucky" to have social housing, but how about having some empathy if they are struggling in an overcrowded house.

It scares me. This lack of empathy has real affects, Cuts are being made to benefits for disabled people, only because most people simply don't care enough.

I agree op and blame the mainstream media. The times when thing were better was when they supported Blair now its tories and ukip so the right wing rhetoric is on the frot of the papers daily.
pink we didnt take lots of refugees in at all, also foreign aid is used to secure contractsm most of that money is used by those countries to buy goods from the uk, usually arms.
Look after our own and we cant solve the worlds problems....maybe not but we could stop selling bombs and arms that are killing people all over the world.
In the 90's when i was in high school we had 6 Somalian families moved to the area after escaping the war. They were welcomed with open arms and helped by the locals, people who could barely afford it. 2 months ago a house given to a syrian family in the same estate had grafitti scrawled on the door and the was petrol bombed other refugees were targeted too.
This is a prime example of what has hapened to our empathy and i think its tragic.
The country you live in is an accident of birth and nothing more. No one has worked to be born where they are lucky for us we were born here.

I work in IT so I deal every day with computer illiteracy so I am doing my bit but I ain't going to be curing any diseases soon

make We also used to travel all over the world and take over, keeping the locals 'in their place' - not sure what your point is.

I am not responsible for world poverty and I can't get upset about other people. My friends and family are dear to me and I would do anything for them - randomers not so much.

The accident of birth sentiment makes it seem as if we just happen to live in a democracy that guarantees rights that we are in danger of losing.

We don't just happen to have that. It has required and will continue to require British citizens to maintain that democracy and those rights.

almond
Yes we need citizens to maintain democracy but it was more in response to people say we help our own first and stop sending money abroad etc.
Im sure if i was born in Liberia or Syria i would want democracy but I alone couldnt do it so where im born has benefited me without me doing anything iyswim

Re. "Looking after our own"... This seems to be natural human behaviour. Sure, it doesn't necessarily make it right if we use our higher brains to start thinking about moralily. But it irks me that so many will preach that we should look after everyone but don't realise they display the same hierarchy in terms of who they help/how they treat people in real life. We need to recognise we have certain tendencies in order to override them.

Then maybe you stop seeing yourself so much as an individual and party of a society instead, Dilli.

My grandparents and parents fought to create the kind of country they wanted me to live in, and then chose to have me. Not every family member was born in the UK, but they chose to shape this country and this society,

But "looking after everyone" and imposing one view of what is right and wrong to other people has gotten us in a right mess. I'm thinking of how many cultures tried to improve upon the lives of the aboriginals. More recently western equality and democracy on eastern lands.
So sometimes sticking our nose and "helping" is no help what so ever.

But we are individuals! I know I'm banging my head against the wall on this site but we aren't some lovely group of people just wanting the best for everyone. Humans are selfish creatures (actually all creatures are, it's self preservation) so those who genuinely care (rather than just wanting to virtue signalling) are few and far between.

And however caring you may be, your vision of a perfect world isn't everyone's idea

That was to almond and her comment about seeing oneself as part of society

Humans are selfish creatures (actually all creatures are, it's self preservation) so those who genuinely care (rather than just wanting to virtue signalling) are few and far between

Have you heard of Dawkins book "The Selfish Gene". There's a great book called "From Gaia to the Selfish gene" - where there's a whole range of discussions on how life organises on a massive system of working together to help each other survive as we are all inter connected through to "The Selfish gene" where we are all individuals.

I think that everyone working together is better than individuals trying to survive. Mutual benefits. We also need to work together to protect the planet as that will benefit all of us.

It's a fascinating discussion.

I think that there is a direct link with people's empathy and how well they are doing financially and emotionally.

I'm not convinced. There are people with little or nothing who still manage to be kind and generous, and people who are wealthy but selfish and greedy.

It is.

Most people would throw someone under the bus to save their own lives (to take it to an extreme level).

Society forces us to support one another to an extent. Calling someone names for not actually being bothered about doing any more just kind of underlines the opinion that humans aren't deserving of empathy unless they are people you love.

Im not going to cry over random people - I don't wish harm on them but I'm don't feel anything about them. Equally I wouldn't expect randomers to cry over something bad happening to me.

Epi I wonder if that should be the other way round? That there is a cliche of poor but kind with rich but nasty.

We're individuals and also part of society, our families etc.

What I'm trying to say is that British society did not just appear from nowhere. It's shaped and created by us.

It's not about a perfect world. It's about the disturbing notion that we just all as Individuals happen to live in a country, as if the government and infrastructure just magically appeared by the hand of God or the wealthy or whoever.

That is not the case. This country exists because of us.

The selfish gene does not say we are all individuals. It specifically says that the unit of selection is the gene not the individual, and that individuals are not selfish.

It does - and most of us make some kind of contribution to it to maintain it. I contribute, just
as you do.

What 'should' we be doing? We have to give things that belong to us to benefit others. I'm pragmatic enough to realise this has to happen.

But people expect kindness from others on top of that (then ironically get arsey when they don't ) and life isn't like that.

In terms of being selfish - if you had to sacrifice your life to ensure that a stranger lived, would you?

And there is a school of thought that says even parental love is inherently selfish. It is predicated on protecting your own genes rather than being some selfless thing. I don't know if that's true.

Im not going to cry over random people - I don't wish harm on them but I'm don't feel anything about them

That's a bit sad. When I see children fleeing wars, living in camps, starving, I can't turn off my emotional response because they live a long way away. I do feel helpless and yes, I do still look after myself and my family first.

I wish we didn't have war, conflict and hunger. I know we can do better as a species. It makes me sad that we still have such suffering in this world when other people have loads. But at the same time, I have to survive myself in the world. If I was true to my words, I wouldn't spend my money on frivolous things and I would give money to help others.

But it is possible to give time. To help others even in the UK where this is possible.

Maybe I should do that instead of spending time on MN

The selfish gene does not say we are all individuals. It specifically says that the unit of selection is the gene not the individual, and that individuals are not selfish

I'm getting deja vu

We've had this chat before.

almondpudding, I agree. I was quite alarmed to see a comment recently that "we don't have to worry about X, it can't happen here because the UK is a progressive country."

Being progressive is something you do, not something you find in a box of cornflakes and keep forever more on a shelf.

In terms of being selfish - if you had to sacrifice your life to ensure that a stranger lived, would you

Isn't that war? Sacrificing your life for a bigger vision?

Have you fought in a war? I haven't so I'm not qualified to answer.

I don't turn off my emotional response - I don't have an emotional response to that kind of thing.

Govts make people fight in wars. I'm not saying nobody sacrifices themselves but I'm saying it's not a common thing

And the self sacrifice I mean is about individuals - would you be prepared to be injured to save someone else being injured?