I am scared of the kind of society we are becoming?

[brasty]

More and more as a society we seem to be losing empathy for people who are struggling. From those on benefits, to those in overcrowded houses, to disabled and ill people. If individuals think they would not find themselves in that situation, then any empathy seems to disappear.

Not everyone has the same personal resources. Some people are struggling just to get through every day and so eating healthily is not a priority. It is not accident that those with severe mental health problems tend to have worse physical health and higher levels of harmful behavior such as smoking.

Being chronically disabled is shit and makes life much much harder than those who have never experienced it realise. And yes someone may be "lucky" to have social housing, but how about having some empathy if they are struggling in an overcrowded house.

It scares me. This lack of empathy has real affects, Cuts are being made to benefits for disabled people, only because most people simply don't care enough.

Thanks for the Marshall plan link. It was very interesting.

I often wonder why politicians get up and talk about us being a leader on the world stage, as if it is an inevitable role that we must play, why that should be the case, and what would happen if we dropped that attitude.

alltouchedout Wed 29-Mar-17 13:01:55

"Our own"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Who do you count as "your own"? People who happened to be born in the same country as you? What a fucking ridiculous way of thinking.

It's how literally every country on the planet is organised - to take care of its own citizens first, last, and always. The far left utopian idea that we should all be one borderless world sharing the fruits of our labour has minimal traction in public opinion, but bizarrely always has its defenders on MN.

We did get rich off India.
Who is we? The government? Ordinary people in their standard of living?

There were two incontrovertible economic benefits provided by India. It was a captive market for British goods and services, and served defence needs by maintaining a large standing army at no cost to the British taxpayer.
www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/independence1947_01.shtml

People who got rich people in a position to trade with them - east India company - though seen a documentary that suggest our first Prime Minter Robert Walpole and his cronies did well out of it

I think main impact on ordinary people was around cotton. British power in India through the East India Company,and British restrictions on Indian cotton imports transformed India from the source of textiles to a source of raw cotton

I think a lot of the civic building in port cities can trace finances back to slave trading - but then civic building in other cities like Manchester some of the wealth is from cotton industry.

So yes some individuals got rich but the trading with them would have bought wider benefits to whole economy.

Although it's interesting that 'me and mine' has a totally different definition, depending on who you speak to - as a PP said, some people it's family and friends, some it's community, some it's fellow countrymen and some it's everyone

That was why I think of it as layers or concentric rings. Just because taking care /charity/support starts at home, doesn't mean it stops there!

Morally and emotionally we can think of it in all kinds of different ways.

But legally, parents have specific responsibilities for their own children. Legally, the UK government is abusing the rights of disabled citizens of this country, in a way that is it not abusing disabled people on Sierra Leone, even though life is worse in Sierra Leone.

Because a country has legal responsibilities towards it own citizens that it does not have to others.

Because a country has legal responsibilities towards it own citizens that it does not have to others

Well there are international treaties.

But does that mean that individuals have a moral duty to care? Most people contribute to the country's finances - this is to provide services/education etc for everyone. We have no choice but to contribute towards this

But surely your obligation stops there? If you choose to do more then great but it's pretty crappy to call people sociopathic just because they don't bawl their eyes out at every charity advert on TV

I read a funny article in the Daily Mash which said that those who say we should look after own own first are usually the least likely to help anyone.

Ah the Daily Mash - because that's not a parody is it?

Makeourfuture, yes, but those international treaties do not give non citizens identical rights; they give them different rights.

Augusta, caring is an emotional response. I also have anxiety and was encouraged in counselling to reduce my concern for strangers. It isn't sociopathic.

But I think that people should respect democracy. I don't have more empathy for the population of Norfolk than the population of Somalia, but I don't need empathy to believe our government should provide people from Norfolk with birth certificates (for example).

And if people come along and say, 'why should I care that kids in Norfolk are being left with no citizenship? There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world who are stateless as well.'. Then we have a serious problem that people no longer support democracy, and that is what is happening with people not giving a rat's arse that Disabled UK citizens have lost their rights.

Strange isn't it - total strangers showing what caring people they are by having a pop at someone who doesn't care to the acceptable level...

Strange isn't it - total strangers showing what caring people they are by having a pop at someone who doesn't care to the acceptable level...

Well the way you originally phrased it...

I'd describe it as satire myself. It was funny but based on truth.

Everyone I've ever known to come out with that phrase has been mean and could not be counted on to help anyone.

No need to get so wound up about my comment though.

I was called a sociopath because I don't feel empathy for people I don't know/like - doesn't sound very kind to me

Wound up Oh dear...

I was called a sociopath because I don't feel empathy for people I don't know/like - doesn't sound very kind to me

Wound up Oh dear...

And given the virtue signalling that happens on here, let's not pretend that most people do acts of kindness to strangers out of genuine concern. And that's fine, it's human nature to only do things that benefit you in some way, whether it's a material benefit or that warm fuzzy smug feeling

The societies that don't have money have systems in place to take care of the elderly, the infants, the mothers and so on.

So really we are back to someone actually wiping your arse.

Besides, the money might not be needed but this is what is allowing civilised societies to look after the 'weaker' members of the society. The ill, the disabled, the elderly etc...
I don't put the Uk (or the US for that matter) in the category of a 'civilised society'. Not when the money to look after others is there but no effort is done to help those who need it.

Which countries have better care for mothers, the elderly and children, Green Peppers?

Cuba does, but I would describe it as intermediate rather than outright poor.

And given the virtue signalling that happens on here, let's not pretend that most people do acts of kindness to strangers out of genuine concern.

I think a lot of people do acts of kindness to strangers because they appreciate that were they in that position that is what they would want somebody else to do. So... empathy.

Most moral philosophies contain an element of the "categorical imperative" - if you live in such a way that would make the world a truly awful place if everyone did it, it's probably not a very moral way to live. If no-one helped anyone but "their own", things would be pretty miserable. Obviously that's a hugely oversimplified version of the basics but there it is. Many people feel the urge to help others simply because they believe it to be morally right. Not everyone's out for what they can get.

I've not rtft
but what makes people think things are any different than 1000 years ago?
slowly progress is being made.

livia if it's any consolation I think the same as you - my anxiety would go through the roof if I extended every day compassion to people I don't know

my anxiety would go through the roof if I extended every day compassion to people I don't know

Well yes, but if we are working towards solutions, then the terrible things we see will get better.

When did we give up? Didn't we used to cut canals through continents and cure diseases and eradicate illiteracy?

It's how literally every country on the planet is organised - to take care of its own citizens first, last, and always. The far left utopian idea that we should all be one borderless world sharing the fruits of our labour has minimal traction in public opinion, but bizarrely always has its defenders on MN

Sounds like a nice world. All working together....

It's how Star Trek world operates. Then you've got the Ferengi

I'm not going to be working towards anything if my anxiety is bad. It's counterproductive.