I am scared of the kind of society we are becoming?

[brasty]

More and more as a society we seem to be losing empathy for people who are struggling. From those on benefits, to those in overcrowded houses, to disabled and ill people. If individuals think they would not find themselves in that situation, then any empathy seems to disappear.

Not everyone has the same personal resources. Some people are struggling just to get through every day and so eating healthily is not a priority. It is not accident that those with severe mental health problems tend to have worse physical health and higher levels of harmful behavior such as smoking.

Being chronically disabled is shit and makes life much much harder than those who have never experienced it realise. And yes someone may be "lucky" to have social housing, but how about having some empathy if they are struggling in an overcrowded house.

It scares me. This lack of empathy has real affects, Cuts are being made to benefits for disabled people, only because most people simply don't care enough.

And can someone tell me how much caring is acceptable before I am no longer a sociopath?

I think people are kinder generally.

People are more accepting of so many things now including women, single parents, homosexuality, race in a way that would have been unthinkable in even my parents time.

The only problem I see with society is the " group think " mentality. Everyone seems to celebrate being boxed in to some group - Brexit vs Remainers, Right vs a Left, Boden mum, Tesco mum etc etc. Most people are just normal people with good and bad bits and a range of views.

Humans have always had 'tribes' though - it's just that with the internet etc it's easier to find like minded people.

MN isn't particularly representative of the world at large though - it's overwhelmingly left wing/liberal, placing a high value on things like kindness, over intelligence or ability to do something for example - when the real world doesn't value kindness that highly. And kindness gets you nowhere.

And kindness gets you nowhere

It would on my new planet

I'm so conflicted....

Although I suppose the emphasis on kindness could be because a lot of people are parents and are in the throes of teaching their children about it

A lot of the 'golden age' after the war was funded by the fruits of the British Empire which was funded by exploiting a lot of other people overseas.

The world has always been tough, and every year, decade, century has had its own challenges. There have always been some who are selfish, others who give more than anyone could be reasonably expected to do, and the majority of us somewhere in between.

Obviously there's still much work to be done to make the world a better place, but on the other hand some things have certainly improved. For example I completely agree that mental health should be better funded and supported, but am certainly glad the old-fashioned asylums and absence of medication have gone.

I think that there is a direct link with people's empathy and how well they are doing financially and emotionally.

Currently with Brexit and The stagnation of British wages people and focusing there energies on themselves and there families.

Basically people are saying charity begins at home, and it's everyone for themselves.

I may not be the nut job libertarian that someone mentioned but I would classify my self as libertarian

Some people might know this:

And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.

But then the girl and the world got blown up by Vogons building a hyperspace route

'A lot of the 'golden age' after the war was funded by the fruits of the British Empire which was funded by exploiting a lot of other people overseas.'

Is this true? I thought we borrowed money from the United States to create infrastructure after the war.

Livia wow that's a confession.

For what it's worth the 70s was a far less accepting times and the 80s was pretty brutal and divided. Better now in lots of ways to those of us who remember.

almond - Good question. This isn't my area and it's a claim I've often seen repeated but I've struggled to find substantiation for it (which doesn't mean that there isn't any, I haven't looked hard or long for it because busy with other things). I did ask someone who is an expert in the economics of the 40s welfare state, and he said it's nonsense. But that's just one person's view, and he is sometimes wrong I'd be interested to hear from someone with a background in this, and proper evidence.

The second world war bankrupted UK.

The loan was made primarily to support British overseas expenditure in the immediate post-war years and not to implement the Labour government's welfare reforms ... Historian Alan Sked has commented that, "the U.S. didn't seem to realize that Britain was bankrupt
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_loan

We did get rich off India - in Georgian times and later and most of our major ports got rich of the slave trade.

We were bankrupt and they implemented the welfare state - I think you'd only get away with that after second world war when people had had to pull together much more than usual.

PinkFlamingo according to the Red Cross refugees make up 0.18% of the UK population.

link

Phrases like we need to look after our own really annoy me, as does the implication we provide refugees with a cushy life. My DH is a refugee and has been treated appallingly by the home office & members of the general population. He was actually told at work, when they wanted to change his shift pattern to his disadvantage "we need to look after our own". Thankfully he now has a new job but no one should be treated like that.

Who are our own? Myself & my children are British born British citizens, for what it's worth, yet discriminating against my DH also discriminates against us.

Is this true? I thought we borrowed money from the United States to create infrastructure after the war.

It was complex. You are referring to the Anglo American Loan, which did offer a lifeline during the harshest part of immediate post war. Later there was Marshall Aid, with the UK receiving the largest amount (there was no requirement for repayment for Marshall Aid...the Anglo American Loan was payed off recently). All of these funds and aides basically went into general spending.

The key issue facing post war Britain was not so much general destitution, but a dollar shortage. The exchange rate post-war was set at the same level as pre-war, when the Pound was the global reserve currency - roughly 4 to 1. In a way these American loans and grants, (given this "false" exchange level) were perhaps punitive. The US certainly leveraged any "help" against requirements to access Commonwealth markets.

Post-war austerity was really not so much about the dire state of the British economy (it began chugging along quite nicely, pretty quickly), but about this trade and currency struggle. The US was making a strong move.

I think that there is a direct link with people's empathy and how well they are doing financially and emotionally.

See I wouldn't disagree here - but local museum has quotes from some famous politicians saying one of reason poor didn't rebel prior to point they did - was that other poor helped them out - subsidised them for period of time. This also makes sense to me - you want people round who might help you if you hit bad luck.

However I suppose a strong sense of community might be needed first so you don't just take advantage.

'We did get rich off India."

Who is we? The government? Ordinary people in their standard of living?

These are genuine questions. I really don't know much about this.

Amazon, our own is either family, community or fellow citizens.

We do have a greater responsibility to people who are residents of the UK that we do not have to other people, as we are part of the same legal, economic and democratic state. That is surely a matter of fact?

That isn't to argue that we have no obligations to global refugees, but those are not the same obligations as we have to British citizens.

This is a very basic BBC article on the Marshall Plan:

The Wasting of Britain's Marshall Aid

I think the the author is being a bit hard on the UK, btw. I think the yanks knew damned well what we were doing.

Sorry Nzou, it autocorrected to Amazon.

What's a confession? I haven't 'confessed' anything, just stated that I don't have feelings for people I don't know. I make up for it with the people I do know though

I have depression and anxiety which I guarantee would be a lot worse if I was emotionally invested in total strangers

Ok almond but those given refugee status (a tiny percentage of our population) become U.K. residents & become members of our communities. My issue was with pinkflamingo suggesting we are accepting huge numbers of refugees to the detriment of "our own" because it's the PC thing to do & if we don't agree we'll be branded as racist. Whereas the reality for many refugees in this country is that they are not protected by "PC" attitudes & themselves face discrimination & racism.

Yes, I agree with you Nzou that we have not taken many refugees and we have obligations to them as residents of the UK. I can also see that Flamingo's remarks are inflammatory.

I think, OP, that the answers you have received from a your very interesting and timely question can be found in the variety of posts here. It is very depressing. The general attitude that 'it has nothing to do with me', that of people who point at badly interpreted historical facts. And obviously ignoring the very dividing headlines and general attitudes towards those who are not 'our own'. There are the 'natives', who iare OK to receive help if needed as long as it's not self inflicted, and the 'others' who clearly abuse the system and don't provide anything to this society.

After all the efforts, volunteering, altruistic jobs I have had in the 20 years of living in this country, I will never be the 'native' type who deserve help from social care... then they wonder why immigrants don't fit in...