I am scared of the kind of society we are becoming?

[brasty]

More and more as a society we seem to be losing empathy for people who are struggling. From those on benefits, to those in overcrowded houses, to disabled and ill people. If individuals think they would not find themselves in that situation, then any empathy seems to disappear.

Not everyone has the same personal resources. Some people are struggling just to get through every day and so eating healthily is not a priority. It is not accident that those with severe mental health problems tend to have worse physical health and higher levels of harmful behavior such as smoking.

Being chronically disabled is shit and makes life much much harder than those who have never experienced it realise. And yes someone may be "lucky" to have social housing, but how about having some empathy if they are struggling in an overcrowded house.

It scares me. This lack of empathy has real affects, Cuts are being made to benefits for disabled people, only because most people simply don't care enough.

It's just difficult for everybody - until you are a Rothschild, or a member of the Royal Family

Until people stop working. Then even being in the Royal family can't protect you for long when the food and water run out.

Absinthshots actually people are dying...many disabled people have taken their own lives due to them being cut off financially...there is one case where a man died as he could no longer keep his fridge on where his medication was kept (this is now going to court)...Many people are being made homeless and to be honest I think for me life on the streets would be worse than death...the UN have found Britain in violation of human rights due to their cuts to the disabled and sick....It is lack of knowledge such as yours as to what is happening to the most vulnerable people in society which I find utterly terrifying.....

Tbh, the average person who says 'take care of our own first's generally does very little to 'look after their own' outside of their own 4 walls. You can judge a society by how it treats its weakest members, and from my view from my office at the local foodbank the picture isn't massively complimentary.

But life is difficult. Life is not easy for anyone. I wonder when people started expecting life to be easy? I know my gran's generation did not.

But it is a world away struggling with what just about everyone struggles with, bringing up children, paying the bills, dealing with bereavement of family members, illness, difficulties at work, fall outs in the family - this is all part of life -

and dealing with having been tortured, watching family members being murdered, being in constant physical pain, not being able to afford to heat your house, dealing with mental health problems where you hallucinate.

One is normal, one is not.

Maybe that is part of the problem? People now days not expecting to have to deal with normal problems that everyone has to deal with? After all few people don't have to budget at all. Few people can afford whatever they want.

If so, please can you explain the huge numbers of people we have recently let into the UK, that are from war zones? These helping hands are often to the neglect of our own, our own people will still be homeless etc - but we house refugees because we have HUGE empathy for other people - just not our own.

"Our own"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Who do you count as "your own"? People who happened to be born in the same country as you? What a fucking ridiculous way of thinking.

Er bratsy severe mental health problems are one thing and deserve all our help and sympathy. I didn't volunteer to help them I worked with them as a district nurse for years.

There are however many millions who eat too much, drink too much gamble too much and smoke too much and that's a life style choice and not societies fault or anyone's fault but their own choices.

You clearly didn't read my post sbs by the way my own dd has a physical disability as an obese bastard fell asleep at the wheel of his vehicle and no I don't empathise with him if it's ok with you.

Just to clarify, by looking after my own, it is a outgoing thing. I start with my children, and spouse. Next in my line of responsibility is my parents and my dh's parents, out siblings and their children.
Then are my friends, my community, and the charities I support.
I do support bringing in refugees, here in Canada we have brought in quite a few, and we can handle more. I also do my best to regularly donate money to the food banks and local shelters.
As a person with a lifelong limiting illness, who has been in care and on welfare before as a teen, I really do understand helping others.
I just have to prioritize in some way. I can only do so much, and I feel a stronger sense of responsibility towards my family and friends.

actually people are dying...

It's not exactly what I meant. I do know people are dying, because they are refused medical treatments, I do know a couple of young children who have been completely abandoned by the system and who are left dying, it's a disgrace. (don't let me start on the subject)

I only meant we don't let people dying on the side of the road, bleeding after a car accident. We still stop and help - which is not the case in some countries I have visited, where human life really does not count. (and I obviously don't mean a country at war like Syria).

Until recently, no, it wasn't "Normal" to struggle to feed your child, find a space a school, find a hospital bed when you need one. You don't have time and energy to shed a tear for the world when you are busy struggling yourself, and you do not get a penny or an hour of help from anyone, everything is on your own shoulders.

Our own"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Who do you count as "your own"? People who happened to be born in the same country as you? What a fucking ridiculous way of thinking

You are just twisting things to suit your own agenda

By our own, I mean friends and family, as do most people. Look after your own.

Twisting things, then arguing with yourself and swearing, make you look less than intelligent.

Doyouwantabrew I am sorry to hear about your DD.
But no I don't think you understand at all. You are probably the kind of nurse who judges my relative who is morbidly obese. It is clear she has an eating disorder. Her sister has life long problems with anorexia. I have no idea why they both have eating disorders, but guess which one gets judged?

Being a bit fat can be down to greed. Being morbidly obese is not.

brasty this is an interesting comment...I have often wondered about this...do we have vastly different expectations than past generations? My grandfather was sent to work down a mine at 14 and there was nothing he could do about it.....sometimes though, I take these thoughts too far and start to think 'well, I should be thankful, in Victorian times I would be dead by now or locked in some institution'....I stop myself and think 'but surely we've progressed'...it's difficult to know how much to expect from life sometimes in the day to day things...though thank you for your point differentiating 'normal' difficulties and 'not so normal' ones....

*it wasn't "Normal" to struggle to feed your child, find a space a school, find a hospital bed when you need one."

Actually it was normal during Thatcher's time. We are going back there.

Our economy is actually up shit creek at the moment. Wages have been falling for the past decade for all but the very rich.

Gosh brasty sorry about your relative and her sister....the judgement in the world scares me sometimes and I am glad there are still people with empathy and understanding.....

By our own, I mean friends and family, as do most people. Look after your own

Some people are unable to look after their family and have no friends. I am glad we live in a society that thinks about people who struggle. I think we could do a lot better as a country and as a global community.

I agree some things are changing within the country but you do need some perspective with other countries too. and if you benchmark the UK against many other countries then it is generally a good place to live, particularly as we have a welfare state and NHS. this is not that common.

it isn't a race to the bottom, but I do think this is still a fair-minded country, on the whole.

I'm not sure who we d want empathy from??

Empathy is an emotion you can only express if you've been through the situation yourself.

I grew up in poverty (single parent who moved away from family, mental health issues)
I have severe mental health issues and lost my job because of it and have a couple of different physical disabilities.

Who am I wanting sympathy from?? My mum raised me the best she could. It's nobodies fault I lost my job? At least in this society I got to claim money and keep a roof over my head.

I'm not saying people could be a bit more understanding (employers, other people) about mental illness, but a lot of the time they don't understand what they haven't come across. That's not their fault, more should be spent on education like there has been for cancer and dementia. And more responsible journalism and reporting.
Honestly. There are much more good people out there than bad. Society isn't crumbling, every generation worries about this, what do you think they thought when ww1 and ww2 happened? I bet they thought geez I can't believe there's so much evil in the world that they want to kill each other over it.

Clearly people are fed up with things though, there are huge changes afoot such as Brexit , Donald Trump being elected into power, who would have thought it....

Just to be clear, I think that we should put British Nationals first, before we hand out help to others we DO need to help ourselves and the people who were born here, before we even consider helping others. Why should we pay into a system that our kids and we, will not benefit from? Other people will benefit though, because our empathy told us to help them

If that makes me a bad person then, really I don't care, because at some point, this generation are going to have to explain to their kids why gave away their future.

Between 2014 and 2015 the UK took in 216 syrian refugees , Pink , not a huge number of people by anyones standards , 5,000 syrian families have claimed asylum since 2011 , again not huge numbers.

I don't see how that number of people can be blamed for years and years of lack of forethought and funding when it comes to the UK's infrastructure .

I think our benefit system has changed society.
We now assume the state will look after us.
Before the system we looked after ourselves and our own. Families stuck together because that was the safest thing. If one was ill someone else would be providing income.
So there are people who haven't worked for generations. (Few I'll admit but just as an example).

And the assumption is that others will provide. And there is a huuuuuuuge bottomless pit of others in the world worse off than us (probably runs to millions if not billions) many of whom would come here at the drop of a hat. And we can't provide for them all. But instead of some realistic rules to get the best of our own country and society we are constantly browbeaten about not letting more immigrants here, not providing proper care for the elderly, not whatever whatever (some other stick to beat us). And the upshot is that any sympathy I had is gone.
I am quite sickened that locally day centres for disabled are closing, care homes are understaffed but it all seems a bottomless pit and now I just want my savings for me and my DCs instead of throwing it at vast insolvable problems, and making no perceptible change.

I think that before the 1st world war (roughly), social classes were much more obvious, and the "poor" would not have even considered empathy from the "rich". Things have evolved fabulously, I am not sure which way they are going and I think we are prioritising the wrong things today. But our society is much more helpful and charitable than we ever were.

I am not sure who you mean by "we are losing empathy for people struggling". more people are struggling than you think.

I think part of the problem is we have been told that there just aren't enough resources to go round...when that happens it causes divisions I society and a them and us mentality...actually as the 5th richest nation on earth, there are resources but they are held by too few.....

bratsy you are wilfully twisting my posts so there's no point in answering but one last try.

Eating disorders are a diagnosed mental illness but please don't run away with the idea that all morbidly obese people have s mental illness just like all heavy drinkers arnt alcoholics. Being a good nurse isn't all about hand stroking and hand wringing it is also about empowering and supporting change. You are a volunteer so that's a totally different role with no responsibility to help change attitudes and reverse behaviours.

Still as a general point no I couldn't agree less I see daily acts of kindness and help. We help run a good bank clinic as a village and we are overwhelmed with donations and help. Sad we need one but that's another argument.

The terrorist attack last week saw the best of human nature in the worst of days so no I think most people are good snd empathetic but sensible.

Perhaps the types of people we/society in general has compassion for have changed. Eg gay people used to be despised, down's syndrome babies were taken away from their parents and kept out of sight of the general public in residential homes etc

I've been thinking about this. If a colony of say 5000 people started a new life on a new planet, what would happen? What kind of society would evolve? Would people want more than others? Would people help others? Would a hierarchy evolve? Would we have a reward system - or would people just use skills and make use of resources?

Just random musings.

frumpet - It is not just the Syrians - there have been years of asylum seekers and refugees from all over, amassing far bigger numbers than the handful you quote

People are seeking asylum from unrest al over the world, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Afganistan, Albania, Iraq, Kosovans , Serbs, Ukraine, etc etc

It is not about one particular race though, but this is being downplayed as the Uk really haven't done very much to help, when it is a very different tale in the big cities.