to start a thread about trans panic because there have only been seventy six already

[GustyParson]

Trans people want to steal your rights! And stroke your cat. They want to colonise your child's reading books, infiltrate your favourite prisons, appropriate the gold medals you would otherwise win for your peerless skills on the pummel horse, take the best seats on the Tube, demand that midwives talk exclusively about pregnant fathers, haunt your preferred changing rooms, run rampant through the Brownie Guides, go unchallenged in every echelon of the WI, burn all your favourite pronouns in an industrial furnace, benefit from all your oppression, demand your pet dog be addressed as Mx, frolic carelessly across the flower bed you've only just planted for God's sake, insist that there are more than two genders, require to be recognised as the gender 'combine harvester' one day and the gender 'quail' the next, piss on the toilet you wanted to reserve for your friends, and call you Cis which is like totally cruel because it sounds like sissy.

Alternatively, trans people are people, they are not trying to hurt you, most of you have never met one, none of you need to feel threatened by them, and there really isn't a need to start fifteen threads a week fretting that they're going to steal your last Bourbon Cream, appropriate or destroy feminism, or change your baby's name from Thomas to Pixie. Seriously, calm down.

There are many ways to reproduce asexually (parthenogenesis, sporogenisis etc) but sexual reproduction only occurs with the meeting of two different gametes (male and female).

Some animals can change sex, mostly types of fish.

Indeed Not , I'm a bigot in believing my sex gave me the ability to have my child .

There are more than two sexes. Please see Toastie's point below. The intersex community suffer much misunderstanding many do not regard themselves as 'damaged'. We need to be careful who we hurt and abuse when making dogmatic statements.

8. There are people who are born intersexed or with various medical conditions meaning their biological sex is not clear-cut, and their needs should not be overlooked in the current trans hysteria. In the past I've raised this point on threads here and been told it was irrelevant - sorry, but it's not irrelevant. Posters have explicitly stated that anyone who ever had a penis even if they do not have a penis now should be barred from female toilets. A statement like that affects intersexed individuals; you can't pretend it doesn't or not think about how their rights are going to be accommodated.

Kua, I am on your side! I was trying sarcasm, clearly badly. Read up thread, I am Spartacus.

We are humans talking about any other species is a straw man argument. Pointless.

@moussemousse, agree, intersex is not the same as gender dysmorphia, and not the same as cross dressing as a sexually motivated act. X

Not Ha, No I got that. Guess we do need a special font

YABU and very silly.

@kua, the point was a joke, read upthread!

Wow kua who said that:

"Indeed Not , I'm a bigot in believing my sex gave me the ability to have my child"

They would be wrong and very rude. You need to get that post deleted.

The thing with the whole trans debate is too many people are screaming "that's OFFENSIVE" or "I'm OFFENDED" like it affords them some sort of right.

Being OFFENDED isn't a nice feeling, I agree, but it doesn't really mean anything has to change in real terms. If someone offends you by what they're saying they don't have to apologise to you or change their views, it's the freedom of speech that is (thankfully) highly protected in our culture and laws.

The only thing you can do is stop listening and engaging. Screaming like a banshee that the views someone holds are offensive means nought.

So stop it.

@happygoluckygirl AGREE!

HappyGoLuckyGirl indeed

The point being there are two sexes and countless gender types ( previously known as personalities.

Funny how the OP has posted and run...

TobaccoToastie - some interesting points in your post, I'm going to go back and read it properly later when I have some more time. But please: stop with the "cis" - it is truly offensive to me and many other posters.

Some seem to think gender is a pick and mix these days and confused to me. A penis is a male genital, if you have one I don't see how you can possibly claim to be a woman, or visa versa.

Having said that I accommodate to a small group of transsexual people who have been through the whole process, had the full genital surgery and live their lives in their preferred role. They've always existed and I don't recall the problems ever being brought up by that particular group

Mousse there are two sexes, and there are those who are intersex, as in between the two sexes. They are not a third sex.

The "intersex community" as if they are all one group of people who have one condition.

You do know that some intersex conditions can be life limiting? I had a family member who had Turner syndrome and did not live past her twenties and needed a whole host of medical intervention during her life, expressly due to her intersex condition.

Was having Turner's the sum total of who she was. No, not even remotely. Is reducing people to their reproductive capacity humane and proper for a civilized society. Certainly not. But the condition she suffered from did not make her into a "third sex unicorn" either.

She never had children, in fact she never had a romantic relationship because, despite being funny, witty, intelligent and talented, her lack of a second sex chromosome rendered her "ugly" by societies standards and thus invisible.

I understand why people with less catastrophic intersex conditions may not want to seen as as damaged and may prefer to have the choice to live with their condition rather than seeing it as something that needs to be fixed - but this is an ideological debate around how we conceive of individuals being fully human i.e. Do you need a "perfect" body to be a proper person entitled to rights, respect and resources. What it isn't is a redefinition of the sex categories - this does not serve people like my family member as it invisibles the very real physical obstacles she faced in her life.

I've avoided posting on these threads until now, but I admit this one reeled me in - as I'm sure it was intended to do.

I've had the pleasure to be friends with 2 M2F TransWomen over the years. Lovely, articulate and kind people to socialise and work with.

Both had encountered terrible hostility, phobic behaviour and even aggression in one case - which I totally denounce.

I feel strongly that everyone deserves equality and respect.

The problem is, that a number of very vocal Trans Right Activists (TRA's - overwhelmingly M2F) purport that their agenda is equal rights; when in fact it's the usurpation of women's rights they demand and aggressively use allegations of Trans phobia to support their claim in order to shut debate down.

I have a (kind of) theory that there is a horizontal line of sexual equality. Everyone - men, women, trans, intersex - should sit equally and fairly next to each other on this line.

TRA's don't think this. They don't want "equality of the line". They want "women" to be a category that they define as inclusive to a set of subsidiary definitions- to both pre and post op TransWomen, "cis" women and men that chose to be fluid in their definition.

In other words, they are choosing to define women as a "sub genre" of their own sex.

In doing so, they claim not only the rights they are of course fully entitled to - but they claim additional rights at the expense of women - and this is not equality.

It is not equal or fair that someone who has had the advantages of years of testosterone and additional muscle mass should be allowed to compete against women who have not.

Neither is it fair or appropriate that a pre op Trans Man serving a sentence for rape should be allowed in a female prison.

It's not phobic for a lesbian not to want to have sex with a person that has male genitalia.

The truth is that the arguments of TRA's are illogical - yet they are swallowed as people succumb to their aggressive tone and threat that any opposition and constructive dialogue is being transphobic.

As much as I have spoken to my friends I cannot and never would say I know what it is like to be a Trans Woman. I don't seek to claim their experiences and neither do those friends seek to claim mine as a woman.

However, this is exactly what TRA's seek to achieve and I find this very sad. I believe there is room at the party for everyone - but that requires not just tolerance, but respect for the rights of all.

Spot on, I second with a whoop @eatshitandleaves.

TRA's don't think this. They don't want "equality of the line". They want "women" to be a category that they define as inclusive to a set of subsidiary definitions- to both pre and post op TransWomen, "cis" women and men that chose to be fluid in their definition

With you so far.

In other words, they are choosing to define women as a "sub genre" of their own sex

Can you just explain again what you mean by this?

Well said eatsshitandleaves

I nodded the entire way through reading your post EatShit. These people are extremists and not in any way representative of the wants and needs of most trans people. It's like comparing Isis to your average Muslim. Nobody hates trans people, the TRA's would have us believe that not immediately conceding to their demands is hatred and it just isn't.

Wood - what I mean is that women with XX chromosomes are being relegated to a sub set of their own sex - which we are not.

To be clear I don't want to "relegate" anyone else either.