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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to start a thread about trans panic because there have only been seventy six already

417 replies

GustyParson · 28/03/2017 17:22

Trans people want to steal your rights! And stroke your cat. They want to colonise your child's reading books, infiltrate your favourite prisons, appropriate the gold medals you would otherwise win for your peerless skills on the pummel horse, take the best seats on the Tube, demand that midwives talk exclusively about pregnant fathers, haunt your preferred changing rooms, run rampant through the Brownie Guides, go unchallenged in every echelon of the WI, burn all your favourite pronouns in an industrial furnace, benefit from all your oppression, demand your pet dog be addressed as Mx, frolic carelessly across the flower bed you've only just planted for God's sake, insist that there are more than two genders, require to be recognised as the gender 'combine harvester' one day and the gender 'quail' the next, piss on the toilet you wanted to reserve for your friends, and call you Cis which is like totally cruel because it sounds like sissy.

Alternatively, trans people are people, they are not trying to hurt you, most of you have never met one, none of you need to feel threatened by them, and there really isn't a need to start fifteen threads a week fretting that they're going to steal your last Bourbon Cream, appropriate or destroy feminism, or change your baby's name from Thomas to Pixie. Seriously, calm down.

OP posts:
WoodPigeonInFlight · 28/03/2017 19:52

Toastie In point 1 you use the phrase "sex/gender" but they are not of course the same thing. Please can you clarify what you mean by sex and by gender?

VestalVirgin · 28/03/2017 19:57

And who is campaigning to remove Trans rights? Never heard of that, I thought we were just wanting to protect our own rights?

Women having rights in the first place is something that males, as a class, have never liked.

They wailed they were being oppressed when the suffragettes fought for women's voting rights, and now they complain that women won't give up our hard-won rights without a fight.

Nothing new, really.

MRAs complaining that women are allowed to say no to sex with them = transactivists complaining about "cotton ceiling". Same thing, different words, though both cottoned on to the fact that they can use social justice language to disguise their misogyny.

Moussemoose · 28/03/2017 20:00

Bloody hell WoodPigeonInFlight ! Toastie has written a dissertation and you want a bit of clarification.Smile

BenLinusatemyhomework · 28/03/2017 20:02

Tabasco - who is campaigning to remove trans rights and how?

being critical of gender identity theory and campaigning for the removal of rights from a marginalised section of society are not one and the same and you conflating the two is in the very least unhelpful.

Moussemoose · 28/03/2017 20:04

many cultures throughout the world and throughout history have believed there to be more than two sexes

Toastie I found this comment interesting. I am going through your post a point at time. It is interesting that any particular time or culture assumes that their assessment of certain cultural norms is 'obviously' correct.

WoodPigeonInFlight · 28/03/2017 20:06

Well, yes. I think the difference between gender and sex is pretty key really. It's a long piece. If sex and gender are going to be used interchangeably or as if they mean the same thing (which the sex/gender use in point 1 suggests) then I'd rather know before I invest any more of my extremely valuable time reading Grin

AssassinatedBeauty · 28/03/2017 20:08

Is accepting that there are two sexes (not genders) a cultural norm?

Notwhatiexpected · 28/03/2017 20:11

Thank goodness for mumsnet, assassinated/wood/mousse and all the others, you are marvellous.

Bambambini · 28/03/2017 20:12

Notcaryl - for an expert how could you not know sbout sissy porn and sissy TW etc or that cross dressing now falls under the Trans umbrella if the cross dresser id's as Trans. Do you know what is actually going on? And i have dpotted your angry, arrogant tone around. See your sort all over social media.

Moussemoose · 28/03/2017 20:14

AssassinatedBeauty

Is accepting that there are two sexes (not genders) a cultural norm?

Well it is 'our' cultural norm, but that does not mean it has always been so. As Toastie implies other times and cultures may have differing views. When do culture and science overlap? What is obvious to us may not always have been so. Who is to say that the paradigm may not shift again?

Moussemoose · 28/03/2017 20:17

See your sort all over social media

Now that is just rude. Can we not have one of these threads where we talk about issues. Surely Toastie has given you some food for thought?

Whosrightsareright · 28/03/2017 20:17

Hi OP. I don't feel threatened by trans people (I gave birth to one) but my trans teen feels threatened by trans activists.
Guess who were the only people to support us in the face of the abuse? That's right, the women here on MN. Big ol' transphobes they are! Standing up for a transgender teen being horribly harassed because they don't tow the trans activists line.

I mean god forbid an actual trans person stand up and agree with feminists that actually, trans activism isn't helping anyone who was born female, and that includes transmen. Sodding transphobic child of mine. I'm so ashamed Sad

AssassinatedBeauty · 28/03/2017 20:19

It would be an interesting future world where humans had more than 2 sexes involved in reproduction. Are there any species currently where there are more than 2 sexes involved in reproduction? I can't think of any that I've ever heard of. I wonder what would be necessary for our species to evolve to have more than 2 sexes?

WombOfOnesOwn · 28/03/2017 20:20

Tabasco, your talking points contain multiple falsehoods, but none are quite as amazingly false as the idea that murder is the leading cause of death for transwomen. Where did you find this provably false gem, or are you just making things up wholesale the way you accuse feminists of doing?

kimann · 28/03/2017 20:22

OP - sorry but you are not funny. Your thread title is meant to be clever/witty? It's not. It's a serious issue being brought down by your silly undertones of 'witty thread'. Proud of yourself? Don't be. Your coming across as an idiot. If I was a transgender - I would report you just for being a gf. And an idiot. Did I mention idiot yet?

Notwhatiexpected · 28/03/2017 20:22

@whosrightsareright, now don't be silly, you can't expect that your reasoned, witty, experienced and sensible voice matters a jot, do you?

Don't you understand, there are so many more voices on here, who have actually met a Transwoman, and she was lovely.....

GloriaV · 28/03/2017 20:24

Interesting @TobaccoToastie but the big problem is that no one can have an honest debate about Transgenderism, let alone raise queries about some demands being made.

If they do they are blasted by trans rights activists and, like the state of Carolina (I think it is) be ostracised by anyone from Springsteen to Starbucks.

So you can make a very reasoned argument here but the bottom line is that the arguments against your views cannot be debated publicly. So, a bit like aspects of the Muslim religion, no one will dare speak out because of the risk.

Moussemoose · 28/03/2017 20:26

AssassinatedBeauty ahhhh now you are linking sex to reproduction which is a different argument. With scientific advances the idea of male+female=baby may well become redundant.
I am far from a biologist but I believe there are some species where sex is fluid and/or reproduction does not require two sexes.

Notwhatiexpected · 28/03/2017 20:30

There are male octopus who pretend to be female to sneak in and impregnate the female, while the bigger male is unaware. Sneaky tactics. Mother Nature is crafty.

Notwhatiexpected · 28/03/2017 20:31

Snails can change their sex, or reproduce on their own? I had better google that one, that might not be true.

Notwhatiexpected · 28/03/2017 20:33

True fact, not alt news:
www.snail-world.com/how-do-snails-reproduce/

kua · 28/03/2017 20:35

Mousse Yes, you are far from being a biologist. It is obvious that you lack the basic grasp of the subject.

Let me spell it out for you.

Humans are made up of two sexes . The female, of the ability to produce ova and male, of the ability to produce sperm.

We are not frogs, fishes or molloscum.

Hope this helps.

AssassinatedBeauty · 28/03/2017 20:36

"Linking sex with reproduction" um, that's what the word means. Some organisms specialise into two sexes which can then reproduce sexually. Scientific advances might be able to produce a baby without using one male and one female gamete, but that doesn't mean our species will stop having two sexes.

Notwhatiexpected · 28/03/2017 20:41

@kua, but biology is no longer relevant, in fact, to argue using biology as a basis makes you a bigot. It's 2017, we determine who we are by our feelings...

(That sarcasm font?)

Moussemoose · 28/03/2017 20:41

kua that's why these threads descend into unpleasantness.

AssassinatedBeauty made a comment about species I was quiet clearly replying to that comment. I never implied humans were like frogs, fishes or molloscum is that clear enough for you? Or you could just read prior posts.

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