To think Rachel Dolezal is an utter charlatan

[MercyMyJewels]

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/846410886671732736

Apparently there is a thing called transracial now.

What next, transbeastial?

And something else I'd like more information on -
NotCaryl posted "Every single trans person I have ever known has worked as a prostitute in order to pay for their gender reassignment."

Another poster (TobascoToastie) has also made this statement. I believed that in the UK gender reassignment surgery could be done by the NHS, but if you are paying then it is private. The sum of £10,000 cost to the NHS has been mentioned, so - if you're paying for it yourself does this mean the NHS would not provided it for you? If not, why not? And why is prostitution the only way to pay for it? The statement has bothered me, since I've seen it several times now with no supporting evidence. It's presented as if it's supposed to be a clincher.

Because it's skin colour. Like eye colour. I don't feel like a blue eyed person or a brown eyed person. My eyes just see. If I were blind from birth the only reason I would know the colour of my skin was if someone told me. I wouldn't feel it.

But I don't 'feel' like a woman, I just am a woman. Whats does feeling like a woman even mean?

Well bugger me, not even the Sunday Supplement but the Saturday Supplement . Yep, I think that's the one. Doh!

My husband just told me he watched this on Newsnight last night. As a black man he said he can't see what the fuss is about. If she identifies as black that's her business.

I wonder if she has had her DNA tested, wouldn't be unsual for her to find she has the "drop of blood" that would define her as black in the eyes of many Americans.

I am a bit gob smacked at the idea that doctors look at you and decide what to test you for on the basis of some internal colour chart they carry in their heads. My son looks white, my DIL looks white, their child carries black genes on both sides so could easily have something like sicklecell (doesn't fortunately) I would be so unimpressed if he had been ill and misdiagnosed on the basis of how he and his parents look.

If one takes this report from the US as broadly indicative of wider violence against transmen and women*, the two things that jump out at me are 1) the vast majority of the violence is perpetrated by men; and 2) a sizable proportion of the murders were committed by someone who had been in a relationship with the victim. I haven't done the sums, but it looks roughly in line with the finding that 64% of women killed in the UK are murdered by their current or former partners.

*I have no idea if it is, but I think it's not an unreasonable supposition in the absence of evidence to suggest otherwise.

I am a bit gob smacked at the idea that doctors look at you and decide what to test you for on the basis of some internal colour chart they carry in their heads. My son looks white, my DIL looks white, their child carries black genes on both sides so could easily have something like sicklecell (doesn't fortunately) I would be so unimpressed if he had been ill and misdiagnosed on the basis of how he and his parents look

That's not really how diagnosis works.

If a child had symptoms of sickle trait, it is likely that he'd be asked whether he had any relatives that fell into at-risk groups. Ethnic group is selected by the patient and recorded on patients' notes.

No doctor is holding up a colour chart to a patient.

I've never posted on one of these threads before but I agree that the term cis is fucking offensive and we, as women, should be allowed to talk about this and oppose anything that could potentially erode our rights and spaces without being shut down and called transphobes or bigots etc.

I'm in no way as clued up on this subject as some posters but just wanted to ask a question....

Is it correct that suicide rates are greater in working age men than working age women? As in, more men die by suicide although women are statistically more likely to attempt it because male suicide is more likely to be violent self harm?

I'm just pondering this because ive read the argument that the suicide/self harm risk of transwomen is greater than any other group. Is this because trans women are biologically male and that other factors are involved, not just that they want to be women?

MissLupesco that's a very very good point

And the argument re trans woman are more likely to self harm/mutilate themselves because of their biological sex....... if men are more likely to harm themselves violently doesn't this have a link?

I only ask because a family member (who is mixed race which seems apt for this thread) attempted suicide and is now disable due to it being by violent means, and when accessing mental health services every piece of literature and opinion from the professionals said that he fit into the category of high risk due to him being a working age man

Is this because trans women are biologically male and that other factors are involved, not just that they want to be women

The other factor being that something is totally wrong, no one is listening to them, there's endless waits for surgery, endless loopholes to jump through, delays, they lose jobs through being trans, can't get jobs, lose family, relationships, depression, a body they can't stand, a life fucked up, a life wasted and a whole fucked up life because they are trans.

Those factors? Do you think that those things could possibly be a factor?

@MissLupescu good point and well though through. Male suicide rate you mentioned is true in contrast to women.

Lives get fucked up for all kinds of reasons. It doesn't necessarily mean calling yourself a woman is the answer. Better mental health funding and support all round would go a long way to resolving the issues above.

I also don't understand the argument re trans woman are more likely and more vulnerable to prostitution. Is this really true?

I would've thought the numbers of transwomen murdered by men are increasing because trans women are more accepted and out in the open now, which in turn increases their risk of meeting a nut case, just the same as gay prostitutes and women prostitutes. Being trans doesn't increase your risk of being more destitute than the next person surely? and having to use prostitution as a means to live. Women have been doing that for centuries to feed their children. People of both sexes have been doing it to fund drug habits.

Why are trans women at greater risk?

It doesn't necessarily mean calling yourself a woman is the answer

Do you think that's all that happens? Seriously?

Better mental health funding and support all round would go a long way to resolving the issues above

Like societal acceptance? Not having to wait 6 years for surgery? Not having to wait 2 - 3 years for HRT? Yes - that would go a long way.

In America white students are being told they cant wear hopped earrings because it's cultural appropriation.

One white student was attacked for having braids/cornrows because that's cultural appropriation. I've seen articles slating the Kardashians for cultural appropriation for cornrows.

People at festivals can't wear Native American headdress anymore because it's cultural appropriation and offensive.

Maybe these people should say they're transracial?

Being trans doesn't increase your risk of being more destitute than the next person surely

Why not?

I think she's fucking ace, in all her dreadfulness

Hmmmm, I had an African temp who studied in the US and was turned down for an 'African student scholarship' because she was white. Her parents were born in Africa, so was she. She had lived there all her life. They said passport aside, she wasn't African.

Ego- just like my family member who is now disabled due to a violent suicide attempt?

Why are his experiences/fucked up life etc any less than a transwoman. Why is a womans experience and risk of suicide after sexual/physical abuse by a man less important than a transwoman.

I understand the distress someone who is trans might be in, but it doesn't mean that other vulnerable groups of people should be put aside or their protections should be abolished for a trans woman. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom of who is the biggest victim

grannytomine the point is, being BAME is a protected characteristic - it entitles black people to additional protections under the law, because of the additional disadvantages they will almost certainly be exposed to - caused by societal prejudices and unconscious biases against them. If you allow anyone who feels black but isn't to claim those protections under the law, it makes the whole point of equalities legislation redundant. And therefore discrimination will go unchallenged.

There's also the problem of appropriation - white people pretending to be black will inevitably rely on 2nd or 3rd hand stereotypes of 'blackness' to express their identity. From The Black & White minstrels through to Ali G, it's embarrassing at best - downright offensive at worst. I mean for Rachel Doleful fake tan, cornrows and 'ethnic' clothing are what being black 'is'. Can you see why people might think it's a crude stereotype?

Why is a womans experience and risk of suicide after sexual/physical abuse by a man less important than a transwoman

Who said it is?

I am saying what it is like to be trans. That's all. I know what it's like and I know how much it has affected me, my life, my mental health and relationships.

And trans people are at risk of being destitute because there is very real discrimination against trans people - there are stats available for homelessness, drug addiction, unemployment and all the other issues that put trans people at risk of being destitute.

egosum you tell me how you 'become' a woman, then. I'll respond with my own journey from girl toddler to adult human female and then MN can vote on who's had the hardest time of it. OK?

you tell me how you 'become' a woman

Is that what you assume when someone trans posts on here?
You have a stereotypical view of trans people.

user those issues apply to women too.

you tell me how you 'become' a woman

I could tell you my life story and everything that happened that led to where I am now. But you probably don't want to hear that story.

I guess you just assume I thought I was a woman. Because that's the stereotype people have of trans people.